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Welcome to the show, where we expose new perspectives on our ever evolving world through the lenses of various industries, cultures and backgrounds.
Our guests are disruptors, united by a common goal to bring their purpose to life.
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Whether they’re from the commercial world or third sector, from the Global North or the Global South, expect an inspirational journey that will transform your perspective on just what is possible.
My name is Philippa White and welcome to Tie on Earth.
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Hello everyone.
My goodness, it is so good to be back.
I’m aware I’ve gone a little bit silent lately, but sometimes life stops us in our tracks.
Things happen that we don’t expect, plans and itineraries change, and suddenly we find ourselves doing something very different to what we had originally expected.
1:00
For those of you.
That don’t know.
In July, I was diagnosed with stage 1 breast cancer.
I got it.
Early and it had not spread to my lymph.
Nodes, thank goodness.
But I still needed to act quickly and do the necessary treatment.
Thank goodness the scans are clear post chemo, which is another massive Hooray.
1:17
And I’m now surfacing on the podcast again.
I’ve been so looking forward to getting back to things In this episode of Tie on Earth, I decided to turn the tables again.
This time, my friend Helen WADA, fellow author, fellow cancer thriver, fellow podcaster, and passionate advocate for humanity and business, steps into the host chair to interview me.
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And in this episode, episode 111, we will explore what happens when life forces you to pause and to let go and to see the beauty and strength in what remains.
This is a chance to reflect on what the heck just happened over the last few months, from the lessons learned through my cancer journey, which is still ongoing, to the power of community, gratitude, and human connection.
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And this conversation is an invitation to reflect on how challenges can transform us, change our perspectives, deepen our sense of purpose, and remind us of what really matters.
I hope you enjoy.
Thank you, Philippa, and what an honour it is to turn the tables on you in your wonderful podcast.
2:29
I loved our conversation when you hosted me last year now, and the conversations we’ve had, Oh my goodness, you would never have known where those conversations would have gone when we first met.
So I’m delighted to be here.
Thank you for.
Taking me up on my request.
2:44
And Helen, it’s just so lovely to have this opportunity to talk about all of this with you as well because obviously there’s a lot that that we have in common.
So I’m looking forward to seeing where this conversation takes us.
This is the first podcast you’ve done for a while.
2:59
It’s great to see you looking so well, but it’s been a bit of a tough few months, isn’t it?
Like I say, I’m really looking forward to this conversation because it’s been interesting, I think.
So in June, I found a lump in my right breast.
I had done my health checks in December and everything came back clear.
3:18
Now, what’s interesting is when I was doing the ultrasound in December, I did feel something different and I did not listen to my intuition.
And interestingly, when my mastologist now, who I didn’t have before, looked back at the scans from December, she did say, oh, if you look, there is some very slight calcification there.
3:41
A normal OBGYN from like obviously didn’t catch it.
So were they completely clear?
Actually, no.
But no one picked up on it.
So the December scans were those I did feel something different.
So the message to everyone is if you feel anything different, follow up on it because you know, you probably know your body better than anyone else.
4:02
But then in June, I was interestingly doing a podcast and Tabin, who I was talking to, she was talking about her breast cancer journey.
And she said that she had found a lump.
People didn’t believe her that she had something.
And then she pressed it and turned out that it was actually stage 2 or stage 3, like it had gone to her lymph nodes.
4:20
And she said it’s really important you listen to your intuition.
And so as I was editing this podcast in June and these words kept ringing in my ear.
Listen to your intuition, check yourself.
You need to do self checks.
So as I’m literally, I’m editing and I just started to feel and I was like, you know, there is something there.
4:38
And I kept thinking back to that ultrasound where I, I felt something different.
And I was about to go on holiday to Canada and I thought, oh, you know what, maybe I should actually just do this before we go on holiday to Canada because then it’s holiday and then I’ve got so much lined up for the rest of the year.
4:53
I had awards, I had two massive gigs with a big client.
So I thought, oh, I’m going to be quite busy.
Let me just quickly check this out.
And so I went for the ultrasound didn’t even I was, I don’t need it even a mammogram.
I just need a quick ultrasound just to check that there’s nothing there.
5:09
And for anyone who has been in one of those appointments when suddenly people, people are looking and you can tell the energy changes and then they say, oh, you are going to have a mammogram, right.
And I said, oh, I hadn’t even planned a mammogram.
No, no, I don’t need the mammogram.
They’re like, oh, you, you actually do.
5:25
I’m like, really?
And then the mammogram normally is sort of two images now they went like 4 from completely different perspectives.
And yeah, it’s so much more detail thinking what is going on.
So, yeah, before I went to Canada, I had an idea as to what was happening.
5:43
And then there very quickly, I had to change the Canada plans and I had to come back early.
I dropped my children off in Canada.
I then had to come back, start treatment and reorganize the rest of my year basically.
And just as a thing to point out, which was particularly crazy, I believe really strongly in manifestation.
6:05
I have this board.
I’m looking at it right now.
So I have this board and I have, you know, 2025 and these are all the things that I’m going to do.
And I write it there.
And then I’m very focused on how to bring to life whatever the vision is.
And I just find the universe hilarious because I’d manifested a few things that I really wanted to ensure happen and they did.
6:26
And then the universe basically just said it’s not going to happen in the way that you think it’s going to happen.
Actually just work a little bit harder.
And I just thought, I don’t know, messages that the universe send us are quite funny.
There is a message here.
I just need to kind of get my head around it.
6:42
I mean, I’ll.
Share a little bit about how it all happened to me because it’s really interesting that you talk about the universe, because I think firstly I’ll share what happened to me.
So I also had early stage breast cancer, but actually what I had was something called DCIS, which was ductal cancer in CITIC.
7:00
So you talked about those little white calcifications.
That’s what they found in my boob.
I was just out of the pandemic so nobody was able to do anything.
I had decided that I was going to set up on my own.
I was going to set up the human advantage and I handed my notice in to KPMG and as part of that I thought I must go and do all my health checks.
7:19
So it was that and it was, I rewind the clocks, it would be 5 years.
It would literally be 5 years as I published the book.
I mean I was literally been looking at the dates.
So it was February 2021 and I remember to this day, I remember going up into London, there was nobody there.
I was in a mask.
I went for my mammogram and that was it.
7:35
And I remember it was a beautiful day.
It was nobody about.
I remember sitting on a park bench in Saint James’s Park in London and calling my mom and saying, I’ve just been in for my mammogram.
London’s really, you know, eerie.
There’s not only anybody here.
And that’s all done.
I’m negotiating this big global contract.
7:52
And I’m sat at the desk and I pick up a call.
Helen, it’s not field.
You need to come and have a conversation.
And I’m like, what is it?
And basically that was, they had spotted something in my calcifications that turned into you need to go and see somebody.
You then have the mammograms where you’re, you know, left, right and centre.
8:10
I’m only 5 foot 2 and throwing your boob on these like image.
I mean, and it was, it was early stage, but it was high growth.
It was high grade.
And I was in hospital within 10 days.
Now KPMG was phenomenal, though.
I’ve been there with them 16 years and, and hand on heart now, you know, I was looked after and they put me through the treatment of my private medical insurance and so forth.
8:28
But I think there’s something that the universe, you have to believe in the universe, because for me, there’s no other way for explaining some of this stuff.
And I was a bit like, you know, you’d had the conversation on your podcast.
All of a sudden, what was going to be your plan is no longer your plan.
And it just throws absolutely everything up in the air.
8:46
And I think that’s, I think it’s a learning right for all of us.
I think we try and control.
I know you have your plan.
I had my plan for the whole year, you know, from June.
I was then going to go on holiday for two weeks with my family and then come back.
I had five big trips and big events planned.
9:03
And it was just a matter of Oh my God, now what?
But this whole journey has really taught me to just re look at how we can respond and how we can’t control everything.
When everything stopped, when those fans sort of fell apart and that familiar rhythm shifted, what did you start to notice that you hadn’t noticed?
9:25
Before it was interesting because again, the trip to Canada had been planned for, I mean, that’s a whole other story, but the trip to Canada was something that I had not been back to Canada for six years for a number of reasons.
And so this, this trip was a big deal for us and it was a really, we were so looking forward to it.
9:45
We had so many people who we had not seen in in years lined up.
We were going to the cottage.
Oh my gosh, it was just going to be such an amazing time.
And also just actually sort of just thinking about the Canada thing.
My children, I mean, they speak English, but you know, going to Canada for them is a is a big deal.
10:01
I mean, for them to go there, I’m that rock.
I’m the one who kind of helps them just know how to be and, and they, you know, they know they’re for family, but because they’re growing up in Brazil and you know, they’ve got family in England and, and family in Canada, they don’t get to see them very often.
10:17
So it was also a point to just sort of point out which I’ll get to in a second.
And then of course, there’s all these things happening with clients, the award stuff, unfortunately I just couldn’t go, but the client stuff, I had to then suddenly stop and think, OK, this is all still possible.
10:33
How can this all still be possible?
I think what I learned is that one, there’s always a way and it’s always figureoutable.
But also what was amazing is that, for example, I did have to just drop my children off in Canada and come back.
10:48
And so they ended up spending two weeks in Canada without me, which ended up being absolutely fantastic for them.
So they got to fill a space that they would not have been able to had I been there because I would have been the crutch.
So they would have had me to sort of, oh, we don’t really want to eat that or.
11:08
We don’t really want to do.
That whatever it might be, but they had to just hold it together and enjoy how it was and get to know their family in a way that they never had the chance to get to know them before and grow in a way that was so unbelievably powerful.
11:25
They came back speaking English better.
They came back different, just they’d grown.
Only that having their mum go through some pretty serious treatment, right?
Or at least that, you know, not only were they away from home, but actually you weren’t there, but you were also having treatment.
11:44
And whilst you haven’t said that, that must have been with them at that time.
We all knew that.
I also got it really early.
We at this point knew it had not gone to my lymph nodes, which was all also a huge relief I think for them.
12:01
There were still so many questions because obviously I had to start the chemotherapy.
I was actually really happy that they weren’t with me because I had two rounds of chemotherapy with them in Canada, which was, I mean, thank God for that because that meant that I didn’t actually know one.
When they were in Canada, they came back and then they actually went to Sao Paulo to visit their other part of the family for two weeks.
12:19
So I had two rounds of chemo and I didn’t have my children with me, which sounds awful, but actually when you’re going through something like this, it was a gift because it just meant that I had the opportunity to just focus on me and not have to be a mom and actually have people look after me, which was quite nice.
12:34
It was a bit scary, but I think I’ve just been helping them understand that it could be serious cancer.
Can I lost my father to cancer.
So I’ve lost my uncle to cancer.
I mean, I’ve, I’ve lost people to cancer very close to me, but there is cancer and there are, you know, there’s different cancers, right?
12:50
And so this one I felt I could hand on heart, be very positive for them about it and to help them understand that cancer is a word.
It’s not a life sentence or a sentence.
But I think what was also really incredible, and again, it’s, it’s all about, it’s all about space, right?
13:07
It’s when you give people space to fill, they will fill it.
And when you give them space to grow and be pushed in new ways, they will.
And so with my business as well, I would normally have done these initiatives, but I needed my team to step up.
13:25
And I have to say that was amazing because I would have normally done this.
So one, the clients that we work with, they would not have normally seen those people in that way.
Also, they’ve never had the opportunity to fill that space in that way.
13:42
Well, they have in, in other things that we do, but in this particular way they haven’t.
So I mean, I, what I’m thinking of is there was some facilitation that needed to be done.
I mean, to be honest, what they ended up doing was stuff that they could do.
I mean, they’ve done it over the last 20 years, but actually traveling to Turkey, for example, and running a session for 3 1/2 hours in Turkey with these clients, they haven’t done that.
14:03
They’ve done that here and they’ve done that in a different ways.
But I would have normally been the person who did that.
And likewise, you know, going to San Diego and running a workshop.
To be honest, we’ve been doing this workshop for the last 20 years.
So she could have done it with her eyes closed, but it was a completely different situation with a different client.
14:21
Every single workshop is going to be different depending on who’s going to be there, as we all know, but it was just so phenomenal to one, provide that opportunity and 2:00 to be able to run it from behind the scenes and to just have full faith in the people who work with me who are amazing.
14:36
She totally rocked both of them and it increased her confidence for sure, but also just it showed her in a different light because she is involved with these projects and these programs that we run, but in, in different ways.
And it’s just absolutely fantastic to just you have to go through difficult moments, I think to then be forced to see yourself and the people around you in a different way.
14:58
And I’ve seen my children grow.
I’ve seen them just thrive, actually.
I’ve seen my team members grow.
I’ve seen them thrive.
And I just think there’s always something positive in something negative.
Do you know?
I mean, there’s that it’s not all bad.
And I think it’s so important to find those moments because that’s what makes these these difficult situations bearable.
15:20
But also they come at us sometimes I think for, you know, I’m not saying that I got cancer for a reason, but they these challenges do come to us.
And I think it’s what we make of them that helps us grow into, you know, the new version of ourselves, really.
Absolutely, because otherwise, without this you would have gone, you would have done it.
15:36
You would still be doing the same as what you were doing last year, but actually that gives you a new vision as you look forward, as you look forward to 2026 that you might not have had before.
When you’re creating that new vision board that says, actually, it reminds me of a conversation.
I was running a workshop last week and I was talking and people say to me, I talk about being human in selling and, and the conversations that you’re having with clients that you might look at that are maybe more senior to you or, you know, there’s a lot of people that don’t have that confidence to go and have these difficult conversations or conversations with more senior folks.
16:08
And, and they asked me, where did you start?
And I said, well, actually it was a day that somebody was, I was due to go with another senior partner and always went with them and I could do it.
A bit like your colleague, I could do it.
I knew I could do it.
But I always went with what I would call air cover until the day that there was no air cover.
16:25
As I came out the cheap station it was like holy moly.
And I’m like, oh.
Shit, what do I do?
And I I put my coaching hat on Phillip, and I said, what would I do if I was coaching?
Yeah.
And how would I go and approach this conversation if I was?
And off I went.
But I might not have been given that space to go and try that, to go and have that conversation.
16:47
And I think some of the times there’s, you know, we don’t really want cancer to come in the way, let’s face it, right?
But there are certain things that we can think of that actually how can we disrupt what we’re doing to think about it in new ways to get out of our safe space.
Because ultimately, that growth mindset, that shift in what we’re doing will only change if we push ourselves to do something in a different way.
17:09
And I, you know, to that point because that is what I do at Thai.
I mean, that is what we do.
Our bread and butter is providing these disruptive opportunities for people to step out of the day-to-day, to be faced with different challenges and see themselves and the people around them in a different way.
17:31
And I just, again, it’s the universe.
And I just, I almost laugh about it because I just think, yeah, I mean, if I couldn’t deal with it, that would actually be a problem.
Because, you know, at the end of the day, this is what I do.
This is what I and and to be fair, I mean, I, I came to Brazil.
17:48
I didn’t come here through a company.
I came here on my own, set up my business, which is based in the UK, but I knew that I needed to be based in a place like Brazil to do the stuff that I do.
I needed to be able to, but it meant that I had to set up my own phone line and I needed to get my own bank account, all in a different language that, you know, I had no idea how to speak when I got here.
18:09
So there have been throughout my life, I guess, many of these challenges which I have had to overcome because if I didn’t, it wouldn’t have worked.
And this is another one.
And you just sort of think, OK, this is a challenge.
It’s not the greatest challenge in the entire world.
Of course I would rather not have this challenge, but it is doable and it is figure out able and I will turn this around and it will be fine and it will be fine.
18:32
It will absolutely be fine.
And it’s it’s amazing how the learnings when you have something like this that’s different, that you just think actually, this is what I’m about, this is what we can do.
And actually being grateful for where we’re at.
18:49
You know, a number of times I said, you know, I’m just so grateful that we found it that was dealt with that I’m surrounded by amazing medics and and grateful for the opportunity of the business that I’m in and where we’re at.
You know, it’s this life is long and I, you know, touch wood and hopefully we’re we’re here on this Bennett for a long time to come yet, Philip, because there’s a lot of difference to be made.
19:12
It’s a lot of.
Difference to be made, but.
There’s something about that gratitude, and I know you’ve written about that because you know, you said you know, you’ve written about gratitude being a powerful teacher even in those hardest moments.
How do you think gratitude reshapes the way you experienced your cancer journey?
19:31
Again, these challenges, right?
You could either just really look at it and just say what was me?
I’m the victim.
Why is this happening?
This is, you know, a bad hand that I’ve been given.
I choose not to go through life like that.
I lost my dad to glioblastoma multiform, which is a the worst brain cancer you can get.
19:50
He got diagnosed and within a year he had passed.
That was awful.
I mean, it was horrible to lose him in that way.
I’m very grateful actually that we had the moments together.
It was a year.
So we had a year to kind of say goodbye to go through all of.
20:05
Of that.
But losing your father when you’re early 30s, it’s hard.
It’s really hard.
And Dad was relatively young, right?
My dad was 58.
So, you know, that was really, really hard.
And I, I remember very clearly just that grief and that that pain that you sort of go through.
20:20
But I felt, and again, that’s why I say cancer is a word.
It’s not a sentence.
And this is not me, by the way.
This was a book that was written by the head oncologist actually at the hospital that my dad was being treated at in Toronto.
And that was a book that he wrote and the title was Cancer is a Word, not a sentence.
20:37
And I’ve always held that just because I do think life is what you make of it.
I think these challenges are what you make of them.
And I know I could have got a much worse prognosis.
I caught it really early.
Thank God for that.
I’m so grateful that it isn’t more serious like a glioblastoma multiform where I’m looking like my dad sort of a year prognosis.
21:00
And I was really grateful for the things that I talked about, for this opportunity for the people from my team to step up for my children, to be able to be in Canada with my family without me and just be able to grow in that way.
And actually community.
I mean, I have been I’ve seen friends of mine and relationships in a completely different way because of this.
21:22
You suddenly find that you’re surrounded by this incredible group of people who want to help.
You know, even we’ve connected over this.
You know, we’ve got our group with Annalise, you know, our Cancer Support group, people that I hadn’t spoken to in ages, who I kind of completely lost contact with suddenly out of the woodworks have, you know, come back.
21:41
And I just think, Oh my goodness, you know, this journey is so rich if you are willing to see the positive sides of it.
And I refuse not to.
And I just intend to continue just being so grateful for all of that.
And I truly AM.
21:57
Coming back to, you know, your book Return on humanity, you know, this comes back to ultimately being human.
Yes, this is this is about humanity.
This is about connection, this is about community.
And I think there’s something that these moments in our lives do for us totally that in the race to do whatever we’re trying to do, because quite frankly, I’m not quite sure that everybody in the working world knows what they’re doing and why they’re doing it.
22:26
I mean, honestly, these moments stop us in our tracks and they say what is important in our life and in our work.
And we don’t want everybody to get cancer.
That’s not where we want to be.
But I link back to my mum had in theory incurable ovarian cancer over 10 years ago now.
22:47
And we had that moment that basically said we don’t think there’s anything we can do for her.
And I’m very grateful, going back to your point about being very grateful that every time we see them, I’m so grateful for those moments.
Yeah, right.
But we have together, because I know they’re so precious because 10 years ago they might have been taken away from us and we were very close.
23:08
And and her oncologist is a miracle.
And she’s, you know, she’s a miracle lady.
She’s struggling a bit with dementia now, but that’s a different thing, you know.
But all of those moments together, she’s seen the children grow up.
She’s seen them.
You know, we’ve been to New Zealand to see my but all, all of that sort of the gratitude and the connection and the humanity.
23:27
And no, we’re not going to miss it because this is really important.
And I think what you’re saying is that connection that’s come out of the cancer is something that you will hold on to forever.
Yeah, and I think it’s those relationships and realizing actually just the importance of how much we do need other people.
23:45
I think it’s very easy to just go through life and yeah, I can do this alone.
I, I, I don’t, I don’t need, you know, I, I, I can go to that appointment on my own or no, I, I, I don’t think I’m going to call that person or, you know, oh, I, I’ll get round to calling whoever it is.
24:01
And I’ll, and I just think what this has also shown me, you know, I was in, I was going for an appointment with my, I can’t even remember what the appointment was.
You get just so many appointments.
I just, Oh my God, I’m going to.
Chemotherapy.
It’s just like, what am I going to do now?
Which scan is it I have?
24:18
AI have a folder of just all my exams and all my things.
I mean it’s just I take that everywhere I go.
It’s sort of where I take everything.
Anyway, it was might have been the injection for my immune.
Anyway, it was after chemo but and I was with my mum and my mum had That’s the other thing.
My mum came for a month and a half.
24:34
My mum lives in Canada.
She’s British, but she lives in Canada and she being very British, would normally sort of, Oh no, I’m, I’m just going to come for a couple of weeks.
I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to be a bother and I don’t want to sort of get in the way.
I’m like, you never get in the way.
Are you kidding me?
24:49
You don’t ever get in the way.
Come for longer.
You’re not working, you’re retired.
Just hang out with us.
And she’s like, no, no, no, it’s sort of.
And then, you know, I get cancer and she’s, I can be there as a support and she’s there for a month and 1/2.
It was literally the most amazing time together.
25:06
Honestly, just thinking about it, that makes me want to cry.
Like the girls got to really know their grandmother.
She got to hang out.
It’s so lovely here.
There’s so many different places that she can hang out in the house and read her book and we’ve got somebody in the house who helps.
So I mean, she didn’t have to worry about cooking.
25:21
And so it was just really lovely.
I mean, she was on holiday whilst helping me with chemotherapy and I just, you know, so I just anyway, I’ve gone off on it.
But yes, I was, I was in this appointment.
I was going to this appointment and I was in the elevator with my mom, and then these other four people came in.
25:38
They were one woman with a young, young woman with her grandmother, I think, and then two friends.
And they were obviously all going to the appointments or going for whatever it was that they were going to, but they were accompanied with other people.
And I looked at that situation and I just thought there is such an importance in being accompanied by people.
26:01
We all need people and there’s something really powerful about us asking for help.
I mean, I this has forced me to be vulnerable to sort of realize I can’t do things all on my own.
Actually, people want to help.
People want to be able to, you know, do what they can.
26:18
And it’s very easy for us in our day-to-day lives to sort of just, oh, I’m just going to go to that appointment or I’m just going to, you know, to just not allow people in perhaps as much as we could.
And developing and strengthening that community is so, so important because the more you do that, the less lonely you might feel.
26:38
Also, it just helps you come up with more ideas.
It helps you feel stronger at times when you might not be.
So for example, when you’re going through a really difficult time, just pick up the phone and call somebody because you’ll be amazed at how that just pulls you out of that.
26:54
These podcasts always just raise my spirits.
That’s why I’ve really, really, really missed these podcasts just because for anything else, they’re obviously amazing idea generators and just wonderful ways to just talk to different people.
But they make me feel better.
My soul cries out for them and I feel whole.
27:11
And I just think that has also been a real learning for me because I am one of those people have been and probably still, you know, I have to pull myself out of it and not do it.
But I, you know, I can just do it on my own.
No, no, no, I don’t need any help.
No, no, no, I don’t worry about it.
I can, I can do it.
But when you end up being completely overwhelmed, that’s probably what’s got me sick.
27:28
I’ll be honest because it’s that feeling of just how you have to just do everything.
I mean, I’ve got ideas as to why I got sick.
Well, and I think, and I think that’s an important point actually is I, I would say the same.
You know, it wasn’t one point in time, but I’d had 25 years of bringing up children and a relentless job that I just kept going and going and going and going.
27:49
And we will never know.
But I do believe that there is something and when listeners are there that actually take a check in on you because these things are popping up more and more in many of us.
Yeah.
And we have to start to look at the systemics of why is this happening.
28:07
And I don’t believe it’s HRT.
Quite frankly, I wasn’t even on HRT.
That’s a whole other question conversation.
Exactly.
But our lifestyles are such that we’re running ourselves into the ground and not asking for help and trying to do more by others that are demanding more of us.
28:25
Without going hang on a minute, this comes back to your humanity.
I mean, this is so much about this.
It is how are we being more human?
Because this is important professionally as well as it is personally.
Because the two are very intertwined.
Totally.
And Helen, you’ve totally hit the nail on the head and I could not agree more with everything you’ve just said.
28:44
I’ve read a book, as we do when we go through these moments.
It was a anti cancer.
It’s called anti cancer and it’s written by a neuroscientist who also got cancer.
Fascinating guy.
He was very, very, very kind of medical before and everything sort of scientific.
29:00
And then he just realized on his cancer journey how important mental health is.
Diet is also important.
So he starts, he talks a lot about nutrition as well, but he does talk about the mental health aspect of these types of diagnosis and why they happen.
29:15
And what has stuck with me from that book, which I just want to share here because it for me, it rings very true.
They did a test, not him and his department.
It was somebody else who he was talking to.
He talked about it in his book.
There was this test that was done with rats and there were three groups of the rats.
29:32
So all three groups were injected with cancer.
You had the control group that was just injected with cancer.
There was another group that was injected with cancer and was getting electric shocks.
And then there was another group that was also getting electric shocks, also got injected with cancer, but was able to turn off the electric shocks.
29:50
They had control over their life.
So they were be able to, they were intentionally able to live.
They were able to have control.
The group that had control had significantly less cancer.
The group that did not have control and that was getting these shocks, their cancer was significantly higher.
30:10
Now, what does that tell us?
And I, I have to say in my case, and for a lot of reasons that I won’t talk about on here, but there was just a lot, a lot going on that I from my personal life that I felt trapped.
And when you feel trapped and when you feel that you don’t have control over something that is deadly.
30:31
And I think what it teaches all of us, thankfully, I adore what I do in my work.
And that’s what kept me going.
And I have to say, that’s what’s given me so much light over this moment.
But I think it’s really important in all aspects of our life to live your life with intention and to ensure that what you’re doing in everything, personal life, work life, whatever you want to be making these decisions intentionally because if you’re not, it’s just going to harm you.
30:57
But as we know from a team and work point of view it, it impacts people around us as well.
Because if you’re not happy, other people around you aren’t going to be happy.
That then leads into psychological safety and all the stuff that we talked about with our work, but it all fits together.
But we sometimes forget us, and if we forget us, our body can’t handle it and our body will get sick.
31:19
But it also links into not just us, but how we see others.
And again, you know, in your book and Return on Humanity, you talk about creating environments where people can truly see one another.
And and so it’s something about, you know, what I’m hearing is recognising where you’re coming from, but also taking stock to be able to sense where other people are coming from to be able to create those environments where people can thrive or if they are feeling under pressure for whatever.
31:48
And it might not be to do with work, but you can call it out or you can have a conversation that says, OK, so how do we move this forward?
Thinking about your journey and what you wrote in the book, you know, thinking back to that, how is that either sort of supported or shifted what you wrote there about that sort of creation of environments and what we need to do based upon your learning over the last few months?
32:12
I mean, I actually think it’s, I think it’s just what I’ve just said.
Actually, I mean, from the point of view of, of 1, the importance of just creating that connection.
I think I really do believe that connection and belonging are some of the most important foundations of any team or work environment or whatever it might be family environment.
32:31
So the more that you can understand that power and create those opportunities to be able to create that.
But I do think it is the intentionally living and ensuring that whatever it is that you’re doing, you’re doing it thinking, you know, how is this impacting my head, my heart, my gut?
32:47
And is all of that aligned in whatever decisions that you’re making?
Because again, if you’re not and you’re in a role that doesn’t really speak to you and isn’t in line with what makes you excited, isn’t in line with your purpose, isn’t in line with where your skills really sit, you’re going to be doing something that doesn’t make you happy.
33:07
And also it’s going to be jarring against you.
There’s going to be something there and you’re going to understandably have, you know, a shorter fuse.
You’re not going to be feeling that excited, you’re not going to be motivated to come up with lots of ideas.
You’re just not, you’re not going to be waking up in the morning and wanting to do whatever it is that you’re doing.
33:25
And I think what all of this kind of teaches us again, exactly back to what you’ve said, I mean, this is important for group dynamics and psychological safety and ensuring that, you know, the teams flow in collaboration is better.
We all talk about that.
I do that with my work most days.
33:41
But let’s bring this back on us as people.
You know, we are human beings before we are leaders and before we are running companies or running teams or running divisions.
And we as people need to remember what makes us happy and how can we live our life with intention?
33:57
Because again, if you don’t really take that seriously and if you just sort of sweep it under the rug and hope it will just go away, it will raise its ugly head in the form of something like breast cancer.
So the really important thing is just taking, you know, I did a lot of Reiki, I’ve done a lot of meditation and just sort of thinking about a lot of this throughout this process.
34:19
I mean, when you have to lie after chemotherapy and after this injection that increases your immune system.
I would go six days, sometimes 5, literally in bed.
And I, I, my brain could not work.
I couldn’t even watch television.
I couldn’t read.
I just had to lie there.
34:34
My bones felt heavy, my legs felt heavy.
And I would just think, and this reflection is just so, so, so important because it will save your life.
I really believe that.
And that intention and I’m looking for the joy and what you’re doing and creating those moments.
34:52
As you’ve said, you know, it’s been such a turbulent few months, but the joy, the moments that have been created, that they wouldn’t have existed otherwise.
You wouldn’t have had that time with your mom.
Your kids wouldn’t have grown in the way that they have grown.
35:07
Your team has taken a step up in a way that you had never expected or you hadn’t had those conversations.
You’ve reconnected with friends that you hadn’t seen before.
You’ve had conversations.
You’ve been introduced to new people.
You know the wonderful families that you’ll hopefully meet when you come to London, but you know conversations that would never have happened and the wonderful people on this planet that you’ve met.
35:29
And I, I really, yeah, I mean, this thing about joy and beauty, a friend of mine who I just, I think the world of and she’s actually somebody who I’ve also never met in person.
She she lives in Barcelona.
But we were put in touch and actually like you, I mean, I’ve never met you in person, but we’ve, I feel like I know you really, really well.
35:49
I mean, it’s just unbelievable, the power of social media.
But anyway, so she sent me an e-mail when she found out about my diagnosis.
And she just said, what are you finding joy and beauty in these days?
And I thought, what an extraordinary question from someone to someone who’s been diagnosed with cancer.
36:10
You get the, oh, I’m so terribly sorry.
That’s just so terrible.
I’m so sorry.
You must just be so worried.
And I’m like, thank you for your concern.
Not really what someone who’s going through cancer wants to hear.
Like, I understand it’s coming from a place of love, but it’s just not helpful really.
36:28
You know, people need to sort of really kind of change the the mindset when when getting faced with something like this to really kind of be able to move forward anyway.
But to ask what are you finding joy and beauty?
And I thought that to be an extraordinary question because it is so true.
36:46
There was joy and beauty and absolutely everything.
Did I want to lose my dad literally in a year?
It was awful.
The I mean, it was so horrible to see him suffering in the way that he was.
It was terrible to lose him.
He did not get to see his grandchildren.
37:01
You know, it is very, really sad.
But it also was a moment for us as a family to come together in a way that we would not have been able to do.
I got to be with him over that year when he was sick.
You can switch things around and if you are able to find it, even if it’s the smallest thing, But if you do find that joy and beauty, it is incredibly powerful and hold on to it because the worst thing you can do is turn into a victim and to just feel that the world is against you because that is a depth that is really hard to crawl out of.
37:31
But if you can turn negative situations, whatever they might be, and it can be absolutely horrible, but if you have that strength to just find that joy and beauty and then hold on to it.
And then you’re going to start to see more joy and beauty.
And then soon that joy and beauty is going to start to be more and more.
37:47
It’s going to come more and more often.
It’s going to invite more and joy, beauty into your life.
You’re going to be open to more people coming towards you, which is going to provide even more joy and beauty.
And then suddenly what is a horrible situation turns into something more joyful and more beautiful.
And I just think that starts at a little grain.
38:03
It’s sometimes it’s really hard and sometimes very, very hard to find it, but just find that grain and then build on it.
It almost brings us background to that top of the conversation where you talk about that manifestation that what do you want it to be?
What do you want it to look like?
And having that mindset of positivity, of gratitude and taking things in a way that you can enjoy them.
38:27
This, this ride of whatever life is throwing at us.
Yes, there’s bits that are shit.
Yes, there’s bits that are going to be thrown at us that we don’t know.
And all, I’m sure all of your listeners will relate to all of that because there’s not one human being on this planet that isn’t impacted by things that at the moment or has been in the past or will be in the future.
38:46
It’s that mindset piece.
And so as we’re going forward, as we come to a close, what mindset are you taking forward with you reflecting on the last few months of the journey?
What else is there?
And that’s a really lovely question.
39:03
And I, I think it’s, it’s hope, it’s hopeful and it’s light, you know, and I am not a victim.
I am not sad, I’m not scared.
And also I am willing not to try and control everything.
39:20
I think it’s, I have learned to just, OK, let me just take my foot off the gas a little bit.
And I, I think the, the other mindset shift, I think moving forward is just, again, it’s listening to my intuition, but it’s also my body.
39:37
And I think it’s just recognizing it’s OK to stop.
Sometimes.
It’s OK to just take that, you know, to, to reflect.
One of my advisors, he said something the other day, Jim Carroll, who I adore, because I, I talked about how I’ve just been reflecting a lot and just thinking a lot.
39:53
And he said some of the best football players in the world, when they’re in the middle of a really important match, what do you see them?
Do they put their?
Foot on the ball and they take, they reflect, they have a look, they analyze what’s happening on the on the pitch and then they’ll go again.
40:09
And he said it’s important to do that.
And The thing is, is that I think it’s giving myself permission to just slow down.
It’s giving myself permission to have that joy, to have that gratitude, to feel OK and not feel scared and not feel sorry for myself and to just take stock.
40:26
And I and, and it’s something that we all need to remember this.
It should not take cancer to remember this.
Unfortunately for me, it did.
For you it did.
But we have taken this experience and turned it into something positive.
And I hope that through this conversation, it’s it’s for everyone to just hopefully just give themselves permission to to hopefully live their lives a little bit more intentionally, I guess.
40:51
What a wonderful way to conclude the conversation, Philippa.
And thank you for being so open with sharing, you know, what happened, but also those learnings, those elements of joy.
And actually, for all of those listeners that this touches, get yourself checked out, be curious about each other.
41:10
Look out for each other because the world is human and the world in the times that we’re in needs us to be more human.
And I think Villopa, you live and breathe it through every ounce of what you do with your work.
And I think this has just shown us what a special human being you are.
41:28
And the world is very grateful to have with us and ready for that next chapter.
Ready for the next chapter, Helen?
Thank you.
And just as an aside, I’m going to put it in the show notes.
Helen’s book is going to be coming out soon, which is also focused on all her work is focused on humanity as well.
41:44
Which is why I just really, really wanted you to be the person talking to me about this because there’s a lot of overlap there.
Fellow author Cancer Thriver and human advocate of just all things human.
So thank you for joining me and thank you so much for asking such amazing questions.
Pleasure to be with you.
42:04
Hey everyone, it’s Philippa again.
I hope you enjoyed listening.
Now if you’d like to dive a little deeper, why don’t you check out my book Return on Humanity Leadership Lessons from all Corners of the world.
It reveals how putting people first is actually the smartest, most competitive business strategy of our time.
42:23
And if you’re ready to breakthrough disengagement, spark innovation, and build agile, purpose driven teams, let’s talk.
Whether it’s workshops off sites, keynotes, or full scale, leadership, programs will shift paradigms and create the change you’re looking for.
42:40
Visit philippajwhite.com to learn more or get in touch.
A huge thanks to Benna Vieira for the music and to Pete Morgan for his help with the editing.
Until next time, and I hope we’ll meet again soon.
