A voice for Malawi

Malawi is a land-locked, least developed country.

That means that many people don’t have money for electricity and don’t have access to gas or solar.

So, what is the reality on the ground for the 2.8 billion people that don’t have access to clean cooking?

What are the risks to the environment, the health of these people, and the economy of the country?

Even with urbanization, the science and demographics are clear - at least 2 billion people will continue to rely on burning wood to cook over the next 10 years, and electricity won't come close to filling the energy gap.

And the population is growing in Malawi.

So solutions need to be found.

Sadly, the biomass movement doesn’t have a loud enough voice.

And they need one.

Particularly before Malawi participates as a Global Champion for Energy access at the UN High Level Dialogue on Energy in September this year. (#HLDE 2021), chaired by a pragmatic Nigerian Lady, Damilola Ogunbiyi.

Today we bring all of this to life.

And TIE’s important role.

So throw on those running shoes or grab that coffee and have a listen.

And please don’t forget to leave a review, rating, and subscribe.

00:00:07:18 – 00:00:29:12
Philippa White
So the questions are these How can we really activate the best of the private sector to meet the challenges of the real world? Is there a way to accelerate my career that doesn’t involve boring online or classroom courses? And can I really impact people in the developing world with the skills that I have? Can I finally feel proud of what I know?

00:00:30:04 – 00:00:54:03
Philippa White
Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is PHILIPPa White and this is TIE Unearthed. Keep listening and you can follow us on our journey as we show you how we’re connecting the private sector with the social sector to make change.

00:00:55:00 – 00:01:11:10
Philippa White
Hello everyone. Philippa White here and welcome to Episode 20 of TIE’s Podcast. Today I’m speaking with my friend Conor Fox, who’s founding director of the Cleaner Cooking Coalition. Conor, it’s great to have you with us today.

00:01:11:18 – 00:01:18:18
Conor Fox
It’s great to be with you, Philippa. Thanks very much for inviting me to on to this podcast. Yeah, first podcast ever.

00:01:18:24 – 00:01:25:15
Philippa White
Oh, I’m so excited. Well, hopefully one of many. You’ve got a great story to tell. Now you’re in Malawi, if I’m not mistaken. Right now.

00:01:25:20 – 00:01:33:20
Conor Fox
Yeah, I’m in Malawi. I’m in love with all of this in the middle of the country and in the rainy season. So it’s really green and it’s quite warm.

00:01:33:20 – 00:01:53:14
Philippa White
Nice. Let’s tell our listeners more about you. First and foremost. I met Conor in Brazil, which for those of you that don’t know, I live I still live in Brazil. But I met Conor when I first moved here over 15 years ago. He and his wife, Estella. So still, if you are listening to this, at some point, I’m sure you will listen to it.

00:01:53:14 – 00:02:20:03
Philippa White
So hello. They both work in international development, which was why they were living in Brazil. And Conor is driven by the belief that, first of all, grassroot initiatives built on local ingenuity and social innovation using available resources can overcome most of the greatest challenges that we face as a global society. And two, that some working capital also helps.

00:02:21:00 – 00:02:56:10
Philippa White
Now, having worked with the third sector government and social enterprise over the past couple of decades in Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean countries work builds on our increasing interdependence by targeting highly effective social enterprises that are kind to our climate with seed finance, paid for by the polluter. Now, since 2013, ESG and Innovation Ltd, co-founded by Conor, has brought cleaner cooking to almost 20% of Malawi’s population with zero grant money or development aid.

00:02:56:18 – 00:03:27:21
Philippa White
By using carbon finance to seed finance, local social enterprises who come up with mind blowingly brilliant can do innovations that unlock potential and unleash all sorts of co-benefits for autonomy, gender, health, climate, environmental, natural resource, etc.. So we have worked with Conor before. Now this is back in 2013 when Trevor from widening Kennedy in New York went to work with Hestia in Malawi.

00:03:28:02 – 00:03:53:22
Philippa White
Now, Trevor’s job was to basically make these fuel efficient stoves, these clay stoves that they have sexy and basically get more into the market. Now, he had to create a brand and a campaign. He had to understand what was going on in the local country, culture, communities and and the organization. And before his involvement, Hestia was really only able to sell about 500 stoves over two years.

00:03:54:07 – 00:04:19:14
Philippa White
Now, Trevor was only there for 30 days, but at the end of his placement, more than 10,000 fuel efficient stoves were ordered, and now over 2 million stoves are on the market. And they’re now, if I’m not mistaken, the leading stove manufacturer in the region. So something I am so proud of. It makes me desperate to work with Conor and his incredible initiatives again, which is why we are having this conversation.

00:04:19:23 – 00:04:38:10
Philippa White
And yeah, I’d just really love to understand, even though that was a successful experience and successful project, there’s still so much more to do. So I just want you to bring that to life for us. Conor So perhaps you can start by telling our listeners about you and the work you do and the story of how and why the Coalition was set up.

00:04:38:16 – 00:05:00:22
Conor Fox
Great. Thanks, PHILIPPa. Well, I guess I’ll has to hear the company that I work with. We’re a small carbon finance company, and we promote energy efficiency mainly at a household level in Malawi, where most people rely on firewood for their everyday cooking energy needs. So we focus on cooking as this is where most power is acquired and where smokers generations.

00:05:01:00 – 00:05:29:19
Conor Fox
So by reducing smoke, we can save and firewood save on health, save on the environment and save on crime. And a cleaner cooking coalition which is made up of lots of people and organizations. And we are very concerned that there’s not enough investments in simple cost effective local ingenuity in cooking energy traffic. And often attention is focused on electricity and cost as a way to achieve getting cooking.

00:05:30:09 – 00:05:57:09
Conor Fox
But I think we believe that there should be investments in making biomass cleaner. And this is imperative as we go down the path in cooking, particularly when we know that cooking is the go to deal in times of emergency. Just think of the community wood buying stuff. We’re on the New York Times article recently. Just like food banks, they help people in need in Texas during the most recent outage.

00:05:57:18 – 00:06:22:15
Conor Fox
So we set up Dinner Cooking Coalition to ensure that the use of biomass as a fuel is a key part of the conversation on universal access to sustainable energy and investing in making biomass cleaner biomass what we mean by biomass firewood than charcoal. And we believe that investment in making biomass cleaner is an important part of how we to clean cooking and to net zero emissions.

00:06:22:17 – 00:06:26:07
Philippa White
Okay. How old is CC? How long have you been going for?

00:06:26:08 – 00:06:52:13
Conor Fox
Well, we’ve been operational since our first meeting in Michoacan, in Mexico and the city of Morelia at the University and National Autonomous University of Mexico. We met there and subsequently met. We met in Ireland a couple of years ago and hopefully we can meet again this year, hopefully before Malawi participates as a global champion for energy access in the High-Level Dialog for Energy.

00:06:52:23 – 00:06:54:08
Conor Fox
These are in September this.

00:06:54:08 – 00:07:11:10
Philippa White
Year, yes, which we will be talking about because I’m very keen to understand more about that, of course. But just to understand a little bit more about CCS. So who is involved in this coalition? Is it other countries? Is it just Malawi? Is it just so I understand and so we understand, yes.

00:07:11:11 – 00:07:49:13
Conor Fox
So it’s made up of like minded individuals, people who founded the coalition, who work in academe and implementation like ourselves, who actually do projects on the ground and civil society and also government people. We have a declaration for the West for declaration, and that’s open for anybody to sign up to. And it’s basically talks about cleaner cooking. It’s the important stuff as what we need to include biomass and other sustainable energy options as we try to make cooking energy clean and sustainable for everybody.

00:07:49:14 – 00:08:13:03
Conor Fox
Yeah, so it’s, it’s a voluntary organization and we’re very motivated to try and make the issue that we’re concerned about is more important because we all need cooking energy. And right now there’s, there’s 3 billion people who don’t have access to clean cooking. And we’re trying to change that and we really need investment in the sector.

00:08:13:03 – 00:08:22:17
Philippa White
Yeah, perhaps you can tell our listeners about your experience to date with Tie and what some stories are that sort of stood out.

00:08:23:02 – 00:08:48:11
Conor Fox
Our experience has been fantastic obviously, and myself, we know each other from 18 years ago. Course it has been really good for the work we are doing in Malawi to have access to really top quality, highly skilled people who wants to share their skills with a social enterprise. In a country like Malawi, we have a great product. We have great people working here in Malawi.

00:08:48:17 – 00:09:18:21
Conor Fox
We might not have the communication skills staff and should have are. It’s great to get these high quality support staff helps allows us to to really up our game and to raise the standards and to transform how we do things. Yeah, I mean the experience we have in Triber came and he really helps from a social marketing perspective and this coupled with having a really good product and really good team on the ground, helps stoats that we’re promoting here.

00:09:18:23 – 00:09:22:05
Conor Fox
And I become a household name. Everybody in the country knows that.

00:09:22:13 – 00:09:24:07
Philippa White
That’s so amazing.

00:09:24:08 – 00:09:29:16
Conor Fox
Yeah, that’s in no small part due to Trevor and it’s amazing.

00:09:29:16 – 00:09:58:24
Philippa White
I mean, I still can’t because it’s we talk a lot about Heston in this project just because for us it’s a big deal. Because when we think of the reasons why Fleenor cooking is important, so many of the things that we’ve talked about, even you mentioned now, but when we talk about the importance of decreasing smoke inhalation, which creates lower tract respiratory infections for children, I think it’s the leading cause of death for children under five because of smoke inhalation.

00:09:59:05 – 00:10:24:06
Philippa White
Second leading cause of death, I think of adults because of the smoke from these sort of open pit fires, how everyone cooks. Of course, people are able to work as much when they’re having to just travel so far and they’re having to travel further and further and further to cut down trees to be able to cook and having, you know, and of course, the amount of smoke in the atmosphere leading to more CO2 in the atmosphere.

00:10:24:06 – 00:10:50:13
Philippa White
So even just that to think 2 million stoves so those are just the stoves when you think of the families, how many people are in a family, how many people are in a house? It’s just quite mind blowing when you think, wow, that’s impacting a lot of people’s lives. From a health point of view, more people should be able to now work, be part of the local economy and just that many more trees are in the ground, which is what we all need.

00:10:50:13 – 00:11:09:00
Philippa White
So I just I think of that and think, oh, god, I can’t believe we had a small part to do with it. I mean, of course, this was you know, this is the beauty of social enterprise and the incredible organizations and people that you support in the local countries that you work in. But to have played a small part in that, I do it does make me feel pretty happy.

00:11:09:20 – 00:11:30:10
Conor Fox
Just to reinforce what you were saying there, the number one health risk in Malawi is health. So there is more than HIV, AIDS or malaria or TB. So it’s really, really important. For some reason, it just doesn’t attract the attention internationally that it should do. In terms of health issues.

00:11:30:14 – 00:11:30:21
Philippa White
Yeah.

00:11:31:17 – 00:11:52:07
Conor Fox
You’re also taken into consideration all the other impacts of the has in terms of environment, climate and, you know, socioeconomics of the home having to spend in countries like Malawi. People spend, you know, 15% of their income on fuel. It’s not a small issue. And as you’re suggesting there, a shortage or is becoming an issue. Population is increasing.

00:11:52:07 – 00:12:19:07
Conor Fox
So Frankfurt are a more it’s a really, really big issue. And it’s not it doesn’t get the attention it deserves. And that’s why we could really do with some highly targeted, specialized communication and strategy on how to make more people, and especially that decision makers aware of this is cognizant of the issue when they’re making decisions, when they’re looking at budgets and still.

00:12:19:14 – 00:12:44:11
Philippa White
Yeah, and I think that brings us nicely to just what we are hoping to do with Cassie in the hopefully not too distant future with our accelerator program. Perhaps. Actually, before I get to that, maybe I think it would be helpful for just our listeners to understand a little bit more about what Ty is doing and and accelerator, just so that I can put this into context.

00:12:44:11 – 00:13:12:12
Philippa White
So Ty knows that the world, the way that it is, isn’t working. And so with everything that Ty does, we help create change makers. And we do that through all of the programs that we have. And basically we give people the opportunity to use their skills in an entirely new context, offering them fresh insights and broadly broadening their abilities, and perhaps most important of all, fulfilling their desire for purpose and filling them with inspiration.

00:13:12:12 – 00:13:39:02
Philippa White
Now, Ty Accelerator is a virtual way that we’re doing that, and what we’re doing is we’re going to bring together a group of anywhere from three, four, five, six people, and they will work together to crack a global challenge. We’ve done this a number of times before. It’s incredibly powerful. The energy is unbelievable and it’s quite extraordinary for individuals to be the change that agent of change that they so desperately want to be able to be.

00:13:39:02 – 00:14:07:13
Philippa White
And what I think is so exciting is and this is what I’m wanting you to hopefully bring to life now, is what every problem or every challenge and every project that we work on needs to have a very specific focus and specific organization that we work together to help. And, and we’re going to be doing this with. So perhaps you can help bring to life what you’re hoping to get from this TY Accelerator experience.

00:14:07:13 – 00:14:25:19
Philippa White
How do you hope we can help? I think we’ve touched on many of the challenges that Malawi is facing. Perhaps you might want to bring to life some other ones in the context of what you’re hoping to do with the meeting that you’re going to in September. So just bring that to life, if you could, please, just what you’re hoping to.

00:14:25:19 – 00:14:26:21
Philippa White
Yeah. What you’re hoping to get.

00:14:26:21 – 00:14:47:22
Conor Fox
Out of this. Yeah. So Malawi in 2013, I think the same year Trevor was in Malawi, launched a goal of 2 million cookstoves by 2020 and many goals pages that are made are never achieved. But Malawi actually achieved its, you know, two or three months shorter than the end of, you know, by October of last year they’ve reached a goal.

00:14:48:06 – 00:15:08:18
Conor Fox
And that was amazing on many fronts just by launching the goal, it meant to track what was going on. And over the years, we’ve have we have a National Cookstoves steering committee, which is a chaired by the Ministry of Energy, but it brings together various actors from private sector, from the third sector, from stove producers and so on.

00:15:08:18 – 00:15:31:04
Conor Fox
And that is a forum that meets regularly to discuss some issues, maybe about supplier demand or quotas and control or standards or marketing and so on. So over the last seven or eight years, based on the launch and there’s been a lot of work in Malawi at raising the profile of the company, and there’s now a lot of actors in Malawi.

00:15:31:20 – 00:15:59:04
Conor Fox
And every year we have a cleaner cooking and that brings people together. We share ideas, we talk about fuels processing fuels, about modernizing biomass energy, about new technologies and so on, and social innovations. So that has been happening overall this time. And at the CCXI we have Andrew Rivkin from Columbia University, formerly of New York Times, who’s helping us on strategy.

00:15:59:04 – 00:16:26:22
Conor Fox
How do we get across our message at a global level? He kind of got a 10 to 1 sentence and, you know, the pitch, if you like. And he says the science and demographics actually, you know, 2 billion people will continue to rely on cooking energy by burning stuff for at least another decade. So we’re looking at people in Malawi and countries like Malawi and even parts of Brazil and in Mexico and even in Texas.

00:16:27:16 – 00:16:52:20
Conor Fox
But people rely on fire and let’s not shy away from us. Let’s look at how to modernize that, how to make cleaner. You know, we can go from smoke to zero smoke in one fell swoop. We need to be have a pathway. So it’s it’s it’s like we we understand there’s a process here. And part of what we were doing in Malawi is we’ve got a Twitter stove that’s made in the village and it reduces firewood consumption by 30, 40%.

00:16:53:01 – 00:17:11:22
Conor Fox
That is a fantastic start. And every person in the country should have at least have access to that start for all sorts of reasons. And we’re halfway there now with meeting coming up in New York. We want to as Malawi, we want to say, look, what we’ve done with scarce resource reached our target of 2 million cookstoves by 2020.

00:17:12:02 – 00:17:52:09
Conor Fox
Now we want to have universal access for every household in the country to have dinner, cooking. And we want solar energy as well. So we want universal access within the next ten years of sustainable energy the way we understand sustainable energy, given the resources that we have and we want to help Malawi delegation to you know to stand up be proud position itself and say, look, this is our reality and we want investments to make biomass cleaner and to make sure everybody in our country can have access to cleaner cooking and some energy.

00:17:53:02 – 00:18:11:23
Philippa White
So maybe let’s just back up a little bit and can you talk to us a little bit about the meeting that’s happening? So what what is this meeting? Who’s at this meeting? What’s the purpose of this meeting? Who are the types of who who’s being represented? Can you bring that to life? Who are going to have the list?

00:18:11:23 – 00:18:15:09
Philippa White
So at this meeting, just if you can let us understand that.

00:18:15:09 – 00:18:40:23
Conor Fox
Yeah. So it’s at the meetings in New York and hosted by the UN and specifically to discuss energy and and we have the sustainable development Goals, I think the 17 goals that have been developed by global society saying over the next ten years to measure our progress globally, these are the goals that we want to achieve. And one of the goals is specifically to do with energy.

00:18:41:12 – 00:19:09:09
Conor Fox
And this year, 2021, the UN are going to have a high level dialog on energy. It’s the first meeting of its kind, specifically on energy since 1981. And it’s very important for the Cleaner Cooking Coalition because this is where the goal is defined and where the indicators are defined. So what do we mean by sustainable energy? What do we mean by clean?

00:19:09:15 – 00:19:35:08
Conor Fox
What we mean by modern? What we mean by access is access being you know, there’s there’s a lot of nuances. It’s very interesting. I won’t go into all the complexities, but we feel that the 2 billion people who will still rely on biomass in ten years time orange property represented at the meeting, their situation is not prepared properly for representatives at the meeting.

00:19:35:14 – 00:19:52:05
Conor Fox
So who will be there? It will be governments or governments that are part of the UN and they will all have their own agenda and the agenda that we’re specifically interested in is the spark. The country where access to cooking.

00:19:52:13 – 00:19:54:19
Philippa White
The how many people saw it just went a little bit quiet.

00:19:55:06 – 00:20:22:19
Conor Fox
But it’s many people. Yeah, sorry. It was it’s a 2.8 billion people who don’t have access to clean cooking approximately. So yeah. So it’s, it’s a lot of people. And right now the level of investments are not up in a nation in terms of how to make their situation better. From an African perspective. Yeah, it’s disgraceful. It’s almost it’s nothing.

00:20:22:19 – 00:20:25:05
Conor Fox
Okay. So what we want to do, we want to challenge that.

00:20:25:18 – 00:20:35:03
Philippa White
Yeah. And who is going from. So is it Malawi. Is is the C, C, C representing Malawi at the meeting. Is that what I understand.

00:20:35:09 – 00:21:05:18
Conor Fox
So we as the CPC, we have, we’ve worked with the governments of Malawi and the people and also stakeholders in Malawi for many years. And we have colleagues, for example, we have Omar Mesereau’s is one of the most prestigious academics in the world, cooking and biomass they use. We would like to invite him to Malawi and also Dr. Carver, who’s done a lot of work on inner cooking in India.

00:21:05:20 – 00:21:18:15
Conor Fox
And we would like our global experts such as Priya Omar, to share their insights with the Malawi delegation and help them to lobby for the needs of Malawi.

00:21:19:01 – 00:21:26:04
Philippa White
And so what is your objective then for this project? So it’s talking to who and wanting what to happen.

00:21:26:09 – 00:22:01:12
Conor Fox
We want to work with the Malawi delegation. We already have established a task force which is made up of the commission and some steering committee of Malawi and the Ministry of Energy and we met their group meeting next week and hopefully we might get a chance to meet the Minister of Energy of Natural Resources in Malawi. Yeah, and we wants to help, not delegation advocates or people or people who we continue to work with.

00:22:01:12 – 00:22:15:21
Conor Fox
And what is the communication message? What is their pitch? How can we help Malawi with that? Yeah. And what are we trying to achieve? We know what we’ve discussed just now and what the issues are. What’s our how do.

00:22:15:21 – 00:22:17:20
Philippa White
You cut through? Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:17:20 – 00:22:18:17
Conor Fox
What’s our strategy?

00:22:18:24 – 00:22:53:20
Philippa White
Yeah. And I think for me, what just really is clear to me is the money, like you mentioned a little bit before, the money is behind the the energy that makes more it’s sexier. There’s more money behind it. They have a bigger lobby because they have more money and a bigger voice and bigger countries behind it. And what I understand is, as much as it would be great for everybody, I mean, you mentioned solar, but, you know, it would be great for everybody to be able to use solar, everyone be able to use gas or everyone be able to use electricity.

00:22:54:12 – 00:23:15:21
Philippa White
But it’s not a reality. And like you said, at least for the next ten years, these individuals are not represented by those other opportunities or those of their offers. And as sexy as those are for other countries around the world, the reality in Malawi is that it is the poorest, if not all. It is one of the, if not the poorest country in the world.

00:23:16:05 – 00:23:36:10
Philippa White
And the reality on the ground is that they don’t have access, they don’t have the money, they don’t have the ability to be able to use those other options. But the problem is, when you’re the poorest country in the world, you also don’t have a lot of you don’t have a voice, you don’t have the support of big business or people with a loud voice to be able to support you.

00:23:36:10 – 00:23:41:06
Philippa White
So that’s what we’re hoping to do. So is that do I understand that correctly? And I probably haven’t articulated that say well.

00:23:41:06 – 00:24:10:20
Conor Fox
Yeah, that’s exactly it. And I think just to give you this small example, in Malawi, 10% of the population have access to electricity. Yes, only 2% of the 10% to 70% of people have access to electricity uses predominantly for cooking. Why? Because there’s blackouts, because they don’t have charcoal is cheaper. It’s easier to access. You have to get into the filling station to buy a scratchcards, put on to your electricity to top it into your next access to electricity.

00:24:10:20 – 00:24:43:14
Conor Fox
Having connection to electricity doesn’t mean that you’re going to use it for cooking. So is that really access if all the money is aimed in New York, most of that goes to the electricity to not for cancer and LPG, and that won’t really affect and the average punter in Malawi that will bring much benefits the average person however if we agreed that even with access to electricity and even with access to that, people are going to still use firewood.

00:24:44:04 – 00:25:02:01
Conor Fox
That’s the reality. And let’s look at that reality and break. How do we make that firewood use cleaner? We make it more tuned. How how do we make it reduce its health impacts and and so on that issue that’s been missing, we want to address super exciting.

00:25:02:01 – 00:25:18:24
Philippa White
I feel the same feeling of excitement when we had this original conversation in around 2012 over 11, we said we just need to make these stoves sexy. And I was like, That’s a cool brief. Okay, let’s do it. And here we are, 2 million stoves later.

00:25:19:16 – 00:25:41:13
Conor Fox
And I’m delighted that you’ve had me on, PHILIPPa, and I’m for anybody out there that’s listening that’s kind of saner and I might be interested not, you know, please come. You’ll have a fantastic experience. We’ll try and we’ll try and really make change and lasting change. And it’s good to have you from patients for an enormous amount people.

00:25:41:23 – 00:25:59:17
Philippa White
So. Absolutely, I totally agree. Now, as we come to the end of this, I would just like to ask you, what haven’t I asked you or what would you like to say to tell our listeners that you think that they’d find interesting? Or what are you working on at the moment that would be interesting. Just how can people know more about your work?

00:25:59:17 – 00:26:01:18
Philippa White
I mean, what can what can you tell us?

00:26:01:22 – 00:26:26:00
Conor Fox
Um, well, I mean, we’re super excited about Malawi being global champion because we kind of thought we’ve missed the boat and we managed to get Malawi in at the last minutes. And they and we have a Nigerian woman who’s who’s head of the sustainable energy for all at the moment. And she’s a realist. She’s a pragmatist. And it’s great to have people like that because they understand we got to take care.

00:26:26:01 – 00:27:13:06
Conor Fox
Not always. You know, sometimes you get idealists at the high level and it’s it’s it’s we need pragmatists. We need people to come and embrace the reality and, you know, push to change something need so, so badly. And what’s exciting is that if we can bring some of the people together from a of action and if we can get one or two strong kind of results, I think we can start building momentum to make massive change, altering the words regarding sustainability of community energy, which is at a house level where you need most of your energy, but it’s such a big issue and overlooked for so long, so can change that good.

00:27:13:06 – 00:27:20:07
Philippa White
That’s a great mission and yeah, super excited to be a part of it. So Connor, it’s always a pleasure.

00:27:21:04 – 00:27:23:03
Conor Fox
I hope it’s always a pleasure.

00:27:23:03 – 00:27:37:24
Philippa White
Philipa, I hope you enjoy the rest of your time in Malawi. Be safe and safe. Travels home. Love to the family. And yeah, we will be speaking soon as things start to take shape.

00:27:38:09 – 00:27:55:15
Conor Fox
Thanks for your time, sir. Thanks so much to Ty. It’s been you’ve been really great help. Your work is fantastic and we look forward to working with you over the next few months. Regards to your family as well. And whenever the system allowing us.

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