James Welch on the business that thrives on less stuff

Here I speak with a former housemate, a friend who helped me get hired into my first job in advertising, an advisor to TIE since 2009, and the Chief Commercial Officer at the start of WhyBuy, the UK-based business that helps people hire quality products and thereby own less.

We talk about so many things.

James Welch has lived and worked in 7 countries around the world. He reflects on that experience. We talk about living together, random things that happened, and the start of Shazam.

James questions me – which hasn’t happened on a podcast before (I quite liked it!).

He explains what TNDP is – the event he set up many moons ago when living in Sydney. And continued in London until Covid hit (I presented at one, and was at the last one in London before the world imploded).

And then he talks to us about Why Buy, the business that thrives on less stuff. Basically, why buy when you can get better for less?

Such a great chat. Enjoy!

Oh, and if you want to know more about Why Buy, check them out here. Rent, don’t buy!!

00:00:07:22 – 00:00:29:16
Philippa White
So the questions are these How can we really activate the best of the private sector to meet the challenges of the real world? Is there a way to accelerate my career that doesn’t involve boring online or classroom courses? And can I really impact people in the developing world with the skills that I have? Can I finally feel proud of what I know?

00:00:30:08 – 00:01:01:15
Philippa White
Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Philippa Whiteand this is TIE Unearthed. Keep listening and you can follow us on our journey as we show you how we’re connecting the private sector with the social sector to make change. Hello, everyone. Phillip White here and welcome to Episode 15 of TIE’s Podcast.

00:01:02:00 – 00:01:30:23
Philippa White
Now, today I’m speaking with a former housemate of mine, a friend who helped me get my first ever job in advertising. A friend and advisor to TIE since 2009. And he’s the chief commercial officer at the start of why by the UK based business that helps people hire quality products and thereby own less. And I can’t wait to talk about everything with you.

00:01:30:24 – 00:01:31:08
Philippa White
Hi.

00:01:31:08 – 00:01:31:20
James Welch
How are you doing?

00:01:32:00 – 00:01:54:21
Philippa White
Good. It’s so great to have you with us. Now, before we kick things off properly, I just want to tell people a little bit more about you. So James started his career in London in 1997 at a famous WPP advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson in the econometrics and media research teams. Then he dashed around the world for the best part of 15 years.

00:01:54:21 – 00:02:20:07
Philippa White
And this, honestly, for anyone who wants some international travel, this will blow people’s minds. So you were in Hong Kong with future brand, then London again with Bizio and Weiner. You were in Sydney as a new business guy for a whole host of different agencies Singapore with WPP, Dubai helping people get ripped off less by the digital oil salesmen, as you so beautifully put it.

00:02:20:14 – 00:02:50:05
Philippa White
And now in London with We Buy. So James loves reading and studying. He enjoyed Mark Richardson’s mini NBA recently and is tucked into his friend Dr. Emery. Emira, Emira Sawyer’s book, The Myth of Experience. And actually, I you showed it to me earlier, and I’m definitely keen to get that as well. So he’s a regular public speaker and also hosts an event called Tea and Deep because the world needs another bloody abbreviation.

00:02:50:06 – 00:03:02:08
Philippa White
So James, let’s talk about why buy or the start? You can start with a story about flatmates or your help with TIE or I don’t know, do you want to explain TIE and deep over to you?

00:03:02:08 – 00:03:25:14
James Welch
What is that? Well, let’s start with the NDP, I guess, because the next dinner party was the name of this extravaganza that when I moved to Sydney, I realized I didn’t know anybody. So I thought a good way to get to know people, to meet a few people over dinner. So I created a thing, gave it a name and called it just that to NDP because the world needs another bloody abbreviation.

00:03:25:23 – 00:03:56:22
James Welch
So we would have dinner at a lovely little French French restaurant which we then have like a top house meal. And that being about eight courses, it was a big meal with lots of wine and a group of about ten of us meeting once every couple of months. And then over the six years I was in Sydney, it meant I get to invite lots of agency bosses and marketing directors, media owners and and have a nice dinner party every couple of months and everybody paid their own way.

00:03:56:23 – 00:04:16:17
James Welch
It was all off the record. And but I got to from the journalists with doctors, it was a great way for me to get to know my way around town. And it was so good that when I moved to Singapore I carried on doing it there and then Shanghai and then and then when I moved to Dubai over there and so started up again when I came back to London because guess what?

00:04:16:17 – 00:04:31:10
James Welch
After 15 years away, I realized that I didn’t know enough people in the industry and I didn’t know I wanted to reengage with. So it’s a lovely way of catching up with people. That’s all been put paid to by these coronavirus days. But you know, there’s always, always it comes up.

00:04:31:13 – 00:04:34:21
Philippa White
Yeah, I think we I was I think I was that you.

00:04:34:21 – 00:04:43:09
James Welch
Were the last one with and I see you’ve been nicking nicking contacts and friends of mine along the way.

00:04:43:09 – 00:04:49:07
Philippa White
Though, because Rob was the the speaker wasn’t he. And I met him. Yeah, that was interesting.

00:04:49:08 – 00:04:50:13
James Welch
So I’m impressed.

00:04:50:16 – 00:04:51:16
Philippa White
Of this year.

00:04:52:04 – 00:05:07:22
James Welch
For the but I’m impressed with the people you’ve had on this podcast. So by, by my math, you’ve had five ed Mad Men, you’ve had five forward thinking engine, three forward thinking NGOs, you’ve had one TIE star for one inspirational sports. Who says that make me the partridge in a pear tree?

00:05:08:16 – 00:05:10:11
Philippa White
No, I.

00:05:12:18 – 00:05:42:03
James Welch
I, I really like the fact that it goes to show the whole encompasses everything that the international exchange is about. You’ve got the, the corporate side of things where you’ve got the people who’ve adland has been where you say when I started out as you talk about flatmates, but I really love how you brought together the the business side of it, the people who are paying for what I’m going to call the candidates to go off to far flung places in the previous models.

00:05:42:18 – 00:06:09:10
James Welch
And then you meet some of the people that they’ve been helping and how that’s been important. And then the fact that you can’t do it all yourself and you need to have you’ve adapted the businesses as people have come along and come back from trips and realized they don’t fit into the they’re all jobs as well. So having a trainer and executive coach on board makes so much sense and then having the fact that you’re your strapline, I know you’re going to be a better leader is better companies, better world.

00:06:10:02 – 00:06:19:11
James Welch
Then you have your inspiration, inspirational sportswoman who then brings a lot to life in one spot. So I’m impressed with what you’re up to.

00:06:19:11 – 00:06:51:09
Philippa White
Thanks, James. I really appreciate it. It was a nice, nice plug for Ty. But but yeah, I mean, you helped me get into the industry, which is hilarious because when I think back to 2001, when we were flatmates in Islington, having just come back from TIEland because I finished my degree in Bangkok and arrived in London, it was, oh my God, it was 2001 and it was in September because I was flying over in on September the 11th.

00:06:51:09 – 00:07:12:00
Philippa White
So I sort of arrived when the whole world at that moment was also in a bit of a an odd time. And I had to I had to interview. And you you were just amazing. And I remember you grilled me on questions and like, no, come on, you need to you need to you need to get this. Let’s do it again.

00:07:12:00 – 00:07:25:07
Philippa White
No, that wasn’t a good enough to do it again. And I got my first job in advertising as a result of that. So I’m truly grateful. But yeah, we lived together back in 2001. What stories like that? So for me, it was.

00:07:25:07 – 00:07:49:12
James Welch
So much fun when we were young and it was an exciting part of town to be living in because it isn’t in such a fun spot and it’s really quick to get into town and I was working in Clerkenwell at the time, so I would cycle in there occasionally, normally just get on the train. But it was it was a really exciting time and Chris Barton was in town at the time.

00:07:49:12 – 00:08:26:06
James Welch
He had just started a thing called a little thing called Shazam. And so it was a really exciting time to be in London. So the dotcom bubble burst, businesses were still growing. Then September the 11th happened and the whole world shut down. And it was a really tough time for business. But then things continued and the world continued and it was really interesting place and the house parties that we used to have in the house there and hey, what about you teaching me how to cook scrambled eggs the fastest way possible in the microwave?

00:08:26:06 – 00:08:32:15
James Welch
That in hindsight just sounds disgusting. And then you chopping your finger off with that really sharp knife.

00:08:33:22 – 00:08:52:12
Philippa White
Yes. Oh, my God. That was awful. Gah, obviously, that was. I remember calling my parents. I remember calling my parents in Canada. And I’m like, I don’t know what to do. I’ve just kind of got blood everywhere. I would just like, stick your head, stick your hand over the top of your head. What can I do? I’m in Canada.

00:08:52:18 – 00:08:53:13
Philippa White
Go to the hospital.

00:08:53:14 – 00:09:11:01
James Welch
What was really interesting about that time was I just I was I was in and out of Hong Kong at that time. I was working with future brand brand consultancy and a project with Cathay Pacific. And because of September 11th, that project that Cathay paid for 18 months of work on sat on the myself and I don’t think it ever came off the shelf.

00:09:11:01 – 00:09:29:09
James Welch
It was looking at the brand positioning. And so, you know, I’ve been a media planner and I’ve gone into brand consultancy and I’ve been living in Hong Kong well, living back and forth from Hong Kong. And I didn’t realize that the world didn’t need to revolve around London. As a born and bred Londoner, I thought London was the epicenter of the world.

00:09:29:09 – 00:10:02:22
James Welch
And and it was around that axis upon which the world would my world would rotate. And then it didn’t seem to need to do that after working with, you know, a busy M and one R, it was a really interesting time to then go out and go back on the road again. You in your podcast, you talk a lot about cultural intelligence, and I think it was Carter Murray who I met through our mutual friend Nick O’Connell, who I think still works in the Hamptons.

00:10:02:22 – 00:10:33:01
James Welch
I’m not sure I met him when we were teenagers, but I haven’t seen him since. He’s maybe had a high flying career, but he talks a lot about cultural intelligence, and it’s something that I think is something we need to all understand. More and more is how different cultures come together. And Simon Anholt, in your last podcast, was talking about the cultural, cultural intelligence and how nations can build a brand based upon that.

00:10:33:01 – 00:10:53:01
James Welch
The only way to really get that sort of intelligence is to immerse yourself in different cultures. So that’s why I talk more about cultural immersion and actually how do you do them? How do you how do you make total mistakes? And then if I’m allowed to say, how do you completely fuck up in different places and learn from that?

00:10:54:03 – 00:11:16:12
James Welch
And it’s something that I’ve done a lot of fucking up in different places, but I’ve really enjoyed working out how to work out which way is up in different countries as you go forwards and how to make a living in different places, but how to get on with all the different cultures you’re working in. Singapore was a really exciting thing to do because there wasn’t it wasn’t just Singapore that I was working in.

00:11:16:12 – 00:11:36:07
James Welch
I was in Shanghai, I was in Beijing, I was in Mumbai, I was in Delhi, I was in Jakarta and and in Sydney as well at that time, just traveling back and forth and everywhere. I had a different way of working. And in Mumbai I spent ages trying to sell in some more programmatic media buying solutions, and nobody was buying anything, but they were using all the right language.

00:11:36:20 – 00:12:10:09
James Welch
Whereas in Shanghai nobody was buying anything until all of a sudden they would have more than I could possibly supply with my small team. So it was a really interesting time to be in digital media across a different part of the world and getting to know the different cultures that are there. And that’s why I think the idea of being able to get up and get out for a short time out of the day, job has been really interesting, but I wanted to take this opportunity in this podcast to totally hijack it and not talk about me because I want to find out.

00:12:10:09 – 00:12:19:23
James Welch
And I reckon having listened to the other podcasts, especially listening to the ones that I didn’t listen to the first time around the last few days, yeah, I didn’t listen to it.

00:12:19:23 – 00:12:21:11
Philippa White
I’m so impressed that you.

00:12:21:22 – 00:12:22:00
James Welch
Was.

00:12:22:06 – 00:12:24:01
Philippa White
So great. It’s wonderful because they’re going.

00:12:24:01 – 00:12:49:08
James Welch
Driving to London a lot. So I live a couple of hours out, so it gives me a couple of hours each way to to because that’s the way by which I comes in a minute is still open, even during lockdown and during different tiers. The way that our government keeps juggling around. So but on those journeys, I listen to podcasts and it’s been a delight to catch up with so many different people.

00:12:49:08 – 00:12:51:18
Philippa White
But well, thank you.

00:12:51:21 – 00:13:21:18
James Welch
It’s really interesting because you’ve got the famous ad man and I see you really do have a collection of the most interesting and eloquent people. So I’m thrilled to to to join the list. But you’ve also got some really equally eloquent but just passionately involved in what might have started as something like a passion project that turned into a movement in a different country, whether you’re in Zambia or in India or in Salah in across Syria and Iraq.

00:13:22:02 – 00:13:45:11
James Welch
So wow, wow. These people have found a massive problem and found a way to help alleviate that problem. I mean, letting children be children is such a decisive foundation, is such a strong and proposition. I wanted to ask you, how do you find not the admin, how do you find the NGOs and the charities to work with?

00:13:45:16 – 00:14:08:10
Philippa White
That’s a really good question. Yeah, we get that a lot. And you know what? It’s I think we’ve been doing this for 50. I guess I started it and started the process of developing TIE in 2005. Right. So we’ve been doing this for a long time. And when I because I live in Brazil, as you know, and when I first moved here, TIE was only connecting the UK with Brazil.

00:14:08:10 – 00:14:30:21
Philippa White
So we started very, I mean it’s like anything, anything kind of snowballs. So I just started doing really intense networking with the development workers and also with the NGOs, like really credible NGOs here in his office. And so I started with just a handful of organizations really that I was talking to to develop the pilot. So I had a plan.

00:14:30:21 – 00:14:55:05
Philippa White
International was one of them. And then just us, which is an organization which works with HIV and AIDS. And Alessandra Nilo, she was the first I mean, she’s extraordinary. She’s a spokesperson representing I feel like it’s the HIV movement, but I’m not sure but at the UN. So she would every year. I mean, I think now just because of COVID, things have obviously slowed down.

00:14:55:05 – 00:15:22:17
Philippa White
But she would be traveling literally every month to the UN and she would be representing, I think, Brazil for the work that she does. So, I mean, I was very lucky to very quickly get in with some very, very incredible, incredible people working for some really incredible organizations. And then just by definition, because of the way that development workers work, so they will be based in a country for a couple of years.

00:15:23:01 – 00:15:46:04
Philippa White
Usually it’s only two, maybe three at the most. So to be so international or international service, which is a UK based organization, they have their development workers that, you know, go all over the place. Catholic Relief Services, also the, you know, the diplomatic service. So I, you know, I’m very close with the US embassy here, so I would be meeting with people and then they of course would then travel.

00:15:46:04 – 00:16:14:21
Philippa White
So I just yeah, I would meet with people and that’s how that started. So we would have people who would go, so has Jeune, which is an organization we’ve worked with in Malawi that came about as somebody who was based here, who ended up moving to Malawi. And then once we had a few different projects in a few different places, we we had enough projects where we often ask organizations if they recommend an organization for us to support.

00:16:14:21 – 00:16:50:22
Philippa White
So that’s kind of how organically it happened. And then once we had enough, enough case studies, we would then talk. We talk a lot with accountants for International Development. They are a fantastic organization that work with accountants to do similar work that we do. So we are often, we call it sharing organizations. So when they work with organizations that they really rate and and they also go through sort of a process of, you know, we always ask for references and we check who don’t like donates to these organizations just to check that they are, you know, above, yeah, above board and doing the right kind of work.

00:16:51:12 – 00:17:11:07
Philippa White
But they do that too. So we sort of share these organizations and it’s quite organic. The global global global giving. Global giving, is that the right? Oh. Anyway, there’s another network that works with organizations. So we just we just network, we’re just constantly networking. And I have somebody who works for me full time and that’s her job or whoever is working for me at the time.

00:17:11:07 – 00:17:32:14
Philippa White
But Julie’s amazing big shout out to Julie because you are amazing. And, and she her job is to just network, talk to different organizations, see who, you know, who really are doing the incredible work. And then we and people often ask us, they say, like, do you support certain causes? Do you support certain regions? And they always say, no.

00:17:32:14 – 00:17:54:14
Philippa White
For me, what’s really important, I support social enterprises. So it’s not just NGOs and it’s just for me, it’s really, really important for the individuals from the north, the global north, who are keen to have this kind of sort of leadership experience. They just need to know that they are using their skills to impact the world in some way.

00:17:55:05 – 00:18:10:05
Philippa White
So it could be education, it could be conservation, it could be women empowerment, it could be human rights, it could be children’s rights. But we just need to know that whatever the projects are make a difference in how it’s done as long as it’s done in a credible way.

00:18:10:16 – 00:18:11:16
James Welch
You I think that’s.

00:18:11:17 – 00:18:12:04
Philippa White
So.

00:18:13:07 – 00:18:47:23
James Welch
Doesn’t answer my question. I just think the fact that you talk about the fact it’s not people with is not certain causes or certain regions because there is so much in the world that is so exciting and so brilliant. There’s so much in the world that is so not exciting and not brilliant. And to find ways to make a little difference every day or to help other people to make a difference at some stage in their life to to jump out of the humdrum, you know, the way we live, the Metropole are doing the kind of the repeat of everything that we do can be so exciting to get out and do that.

00:18:47:23 – 00:19:09:11
Philippa White
And you’re I mean, you’re a perfect example of that. I mean, it’s extraordinary the number of places, because if we think about it to to move somewhere is one thing to to to get your head around a completely different type of industry or job using your skills in a different way, depending on where you’re working, depending on the culture you’re working in to get people to.

00:19:09:11 – 00:19:17:13
Philippa White
Yeah. For you to be able to gel with people. For people to be able to gel with you. I mean, you have managed to do that in how many countries? I mean, I can’t even I think.

00:19:17:16 – 00:19:17:24
James Welch
I’ve.

00:19:18:03 – 00:19:18:21
Philippa White
Been to.

00:19:19:12 – 00:19:48:09
James Welch
For more than six months in six different countries. But I know seven different countries have got one. But I have always enjoyed getting a group of people who are like minded to catch up with regularly. And you find them. It’s so it’s a numbers game. But I do think that, you know, traveling with a young family makes life much easier because when the kids make friends, you can get to know their parents.

00:19:48:09 – 00:20:11:10
James Welch
And then it’s an easy way to get to know more people. So I enjoy traveling with my with my family and moving countries with them, although I have promised them that we’re we’re here for the next 15 years. So sort of it’s exciting settling down after a long time of this different cultural immersion and then trying to find a home to bring it into.

00:20:12:06 – 00:20:33:10
James Welch
And that’s why in the last 18 months I’ve been back in the UK, I’ve, I’ve been looking for the right place to land and to do something. So for a while I thought the right place was within, within WPP to create. So this big agency group is a big business to consumer business. As I write, that’s business one.

00:20:33:23 – 00:21:06:02
James Welch
Let’s take B to B and B to other niche audiences is business too. So dropping the second word business of business to business. So just calling it business too and packaging that up for them. And then COVID happened and they said no thanks to retailers, I owe them. And then going into another organization that supports LGBTQ plus and black and ethnic groups and disabled groups and various other groups that create content for by those communities, for those communities.

00:21:06:02 – 00:21:25:12
James Welch
And then helping the likes of Unilever and Adidas and other big brands Target and Talk to those communities by aggregating the long tail. It’s a really interesting piece, but then I was in there, I realized it wasn’t the right place for me. And then Jamie, you set up. Why by.

00:21:25:14 – 00:21:33:23
Philippa White
So? Yeah. Talk to us about why, but because I am so excited to hear more about it. Just I mean, we don’t have anything like that here in Brazil, but it makes so much.

00:21:34:15 – 00:21:36:09
James Welch
Of what you please, you know? But it’s so.

00:21:37:08 – 00:21:58:08
Philippa White
It because I just think well, I just know the fact what you’ve told me, so I just know that way by is why own everything? Why spend, you know, how much you would spend on a weed cutter if you’re only going to use the weed cutter? Sort of, I don’t know, a couple of times a year. Why would you not just get the best version of that weed counter cutter and just rent it?

00:21:58:08 – 00:21:59:19
Philippa White
That was the time that you need it for and then.

00:21:59:23 – 00:22:08:00
James Welch
That was really mean to me, so why bother? But the reason I wanted to ask was to see if it actually the story. The story carries on because you’re right, it is exactly that.

00:22:08:10 – 00:22:27:09
Philippa White
It’s basically why spend why spend so much money on just, you know, so much stuff? And I think this is the thing like the world has so much stuff in. If everybody is buying a weed cutter and suddenly on a street, you have 30 well, more like 100 weed cutters. Why would you not just have one go at it and everyone just sort of rents?

00:22:27:15 – 00:22:28:10
Philippa White
And then I was.

00:22:28:11 – 00:22:50:08
James Welch
Really obsessing about the why by business is that it means different things to different people. For some people it’s about decluttering their homes because there’s just not enough space in inner city living to have the drills and the fondue set or the bouncy castle, even for other people, it’s about wanting to get the best quality for a better price.

00:22:50:08 – 00:23:12:13
James Welch
So instead of having a the weed cutter example, if you’ve got a garden and you want to have some garden tools rather than the pressure hose of cleaning down the patio, one of those if you want to have one of those, you can buy yourself a ¬£100 one in London, or you can get the ¬£350 one for a fraction of the price just to use for the weekend where you’re going to use it.

00:23:12:21 – 00:23:35:06
James Welch
So you can have top quality products and it’s not peer to peer. So it’s really nice being able to give people best quality products that been perfectly cleaned when it comes back in. So it feels like it’s it’s, you know, it’s new for other people. It’s about joining the circular economy. So they’re not cluttering up the world with more stuff because, you know, we we all own too much stuff.

00:23:35:06 – 00:23:50:11
James Welch
And I see that Selfridges, the high end department store here in London now, is something I read a year or so ago. They’re starting to put new rental clothes in. They have a concession for rent and clothes in that.

00:23:51:12 – 00:23:51:24
Philippa White
Oh, let’s.

00:23:52:05 – 00:24:10:14
James Welch
So how can we all do a little bit more to save the planet that we’re living on now? That’s that’s we need to start doing everybody needs to start doing a little bit more. But to do it here in London, we’re not very good at really understanding how recycling works. Right. The rest of Europe does, because in the rest of Europe, if you don’t do it right, there’s a there’s a penalty.

00:24:10:14 – 00:24:36:20
James Welch
Whereas here we’re not really sure what goes into the recycling and how it works. And it’s about as a result, we talk less about a lot of the sustainable issues, I think, than our counterparts in other European cities. And I still consider this a European city for another few days. So it’s about convenience here and value because you can get the same product, the best product for a bit cheaper.

00:24:37:17 – 00:24:51:03
James Welch
It’s about being convenient because we’ll deliver it to you within the hour time slot and you want and it’s just trying to let people do new things. So in a Jenga set for the kids doesn’t cost much to rent for the weekend. It is quite a fun thing to do.

00:24:51:05 – 00:24:53:13
Philippa White
Yeah, do games.

00:24:53:16 – 00:25:17:21
James Welch
Some of the tough basically stuff is the the sensible stuff or the fun stuff. So you the fundies or the chocolate fountain or the bouncy castle or the Jenga set. And so you can have all of these things just for the weekend of the night, weeknight or the weekday. So in 12 hour sessions, whatever suits you. So it’s about trying to be convenient to the right people in the right place at the right time.

00:25:17:21 – 00:25:38:17
James Welch
And you all of our vehicles, of course, are electric and it’s all about trying to be and educate people about how we can be sustainable, but also working with retailers. That’s the the stage to is to see how do we help retailers sell sell not necessarily need to sell everything, but start to recycle things by by hiring them out.

00:25:39:01 – 00:25:45:12
James Welch
So that’s a stage two parts, but it’s such an interesting and exciting opportunity to be here.

00:25:45:12 – 00:26:11:02
Philippa White
It is. And it’s you know what? It it just really quickly, it reminded me sorry to cut you off just on this train of thought. It just reminded me a little bit of Simon’s comment in his in his podcast where he was talking about diversity and how diversity you’ll get in a second, how diversity used to be seen as a, oh, god, you know, we need to have a woman on the team because that’s just what we have to do.

00:26:11:02 – 00:26:39:04
Philippa White
And he said, you know, it’s not that, you know, or somebody from a different country just because, you know, that’s, you know, we need to just be seen to be diverse. And he’s it’s just so funny because the discourse sort of before or even in some places is still that, oh, it’s something we just have to do. Whereas he said it’s just makes business sense that you, you know, it’s you can be a better company if you have a diverse group of people because you can be more innovative.

00:26:39:04 – 00:27:04:18
Philippa White
And I just think what’s interesting with this is, yes, what’s great is that there’s the sustainability side and yes, less things. And obviously that really speaks to me as far as the less stuff in the world. But, you know, you could see some people saying, okay, yes, less stuff in the world. But then it’s so great because you say, yeah, but what actually probably speaks to a lot of people is, oh my God, I could have the sort of the top end thing and I don’t really need to spend that money and I’m only ever going to use it once and I can have it.

00:27:04:18 – 00:27:13:01
Philippa White
And I don’t have to clutter up my house. I get sort of it’s just great because like you say, there’s different things that speak to different people and there’s a real business case for firsts.

00:27:13:01 – 00:27:38:09
James Welch
For the first time I had all this in mind was when they had the idea of the commercial side of it. It’s something that Mark Ritson, who’s a marketing professor, a former marketing professor in Melbourne and Tasmania, he is now going to on his own to to carry on doing his little mini MBA. And he’s a really interesting, very outspoken man.

00:27:38:09 – 00:27:56:04
James Welch
But one of the things he talks about is when marketers go to the board to try and persuade people to do something differently. So it’s not a hard case to make if you can make it as a commercial case as you can’t make it as a commercial case, then, then why are you recommending it? And I think that’s that’s how the world needs to work.

00:27:56:04 – 00:28:17:22
James Welch
So I totally agree with you. I agree with Simon. I’m lucky here. So I totally make sense when he’s talking about the commercial value for a country to become to boost its brand or for a business to boost its brand. And one of the things that mirror in his book, The Myth of Experience is talking about is not about having longevity of experience.

00:28:17:22 – 00:28:37:10
James Welch
It’s about thinking differently and looking at the conventions and looking how to to to boost something from a a way that makes sense and, you know, from my point of view, it’s from a commercial perspective so that you can then get more people to do more things in a way that is sustainable. And there is a commercial argue with two to everything.

00:28:37:15 – 00:28:47:22
James Welch
And we just have to try and stop people from being excited about buying the cheap fakes or that are not created in a sustainable way.

00:28:47:23 – 00:29:00:00
Philippa White
Yeah, that’s true. Now we’re we’re running out of time, but I just wanted to see if there was anything else that we haven’t talked about that you’d actually like to to ensure that we do talk about that our listeners can.

00:29:00:02 – 00:29:25:07
James Welch
Yeah, well it was sort of mentioned earlier, but one of the things that we can all do more of, and it’s something that the TIE, the International exchange does a lot of, is helping everyday people like you and me and everybody else try and do something differently that makes a difference in the world. And I remember, I think I mentioned to you, I think I introduced you to Andy Ridley, who set up Earth our food well and.

00:29:25:24 – 00:29:27:01
Philippa White
Oh, Earth Hour.

00:29:27:01 – 00:29:28:12
James Welch
Yeah, yeah. And one of the things that.

00:29:28:19 – 00:29:28:24
Philippa White
He.

00:29:29:12 – 00:29:53:22
James Welch
Was doing with the Earth Hour, Earth Hour, for people who don’t know what this is is was created by the World Wildlife Fund in 2007 to help draw attention to the fact that we could do things better to save the planet and save the animals on the planet by doing less harm to our planet. I’m the token gesture for that was to turn the lights out for one hour on a Saturday night in March.

00:29:54:10 – 00:30:27:08
James Welch
And my comment, Andy, was, isn’t that just awful? It’s the best we can do as a human race is turn the lights out or lights out for one hour a year in the way to try and save the planet. They said, Well, we’ve got to start somewhere. And I thank Andy for that and the team for everything they’ve done because it’s been snoring away at me for a very long time to work out how all of us as individuals can aggregate our behaviors to to make all those little differences can make a big change in the way we do things.

00:30:27:08 – 00:31:03:12
James Welch
So I think it’s something that I’d love for all of us to do more of is to work out what can we do in the next month as we start 2021, to try and do something that is a new habit, to do something differently that is less harmful for the planet. And that’s why I think something like we buy is a really exciting place for me to be and to join Jamie and Dennis in the early and UK and Ted and the team, because everything that we’re doing here is trying to make it easier for other people to to do a little less harms of the planet.

00:31:03:12 – 00:31:05:19
James Welch
And I’m still really enjoy life.

00:31:06:01 – 00:31:24:08
Philippa White
Yeah. Amazing. Oh, that’s so good. James, I. Well, I will obviously on the, on the link or under the anchor description, I will be putting a link to Levi. And, and so hopefully people who value this can check you guys out and.

00:31:25:04 – 00:31:47:16
James Welch
Just let people know that anchor slash PHILIPPa White Tie is a wonderful name for the podcast because Anker And for the white tie, I really felt underdressed, but I thought it must be a white tie. And so, you know, I was there anyway, you can’t see me today because this is the book, The Year in my Black Tie Tuxedo just dressed up.

00:31:47:16 – 00:31:53:01
James Welch
But it was a little informal of me. I should have gone black, white. TYSON But that’s the name.

00:31:55:22 – 00:32:02:21
Philippa White
Well, I don’t want people, obviously, you know, who are less interesting. I’ve never met me before. You know, I always walk around with white tie. I’m the fancy is really.

00:32:02:21 – 00:32:05:03
James Welch
Lovely to have a chat to you and thank you for inviting me on.

00:32:05:17 – 00:32:25:18
Philippa White
Thanks so much for joining. I’m so happy. I’m just pleased to to get everyone knowing about why I’m so happy to have this opportunity to chat with you, because obviously you’re a long time. Well, a very old friend and a long time supporter of TIE as well. So it’s just great to have you on here and yeah wishing you all the best in 2021 for Y.

00:32:25:18 – 00:32:31:02
James Welch
By Hayes to a historic great and wonderful year ahead Phillipa lovely chat to speak soon I.

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