Meet the brain behind TIE’s strategy – Ines Vogeler

There is a lot going on at the moment isn’t there?

As we settle into 2022, there is a lot of talk about purpose.

The great resignation is also still hitting headlines, and many companies are feeling it.

At TIE, due to the application process, and the type of experience we offer people, we really do have some interesting reflections on the current state of the workforce and what is happening out there.

Due to the very personal nature of our work, we gain a pretty good understanding of how people are feeling, what people are looking for, what’s missing, and how things in general are evolving.

In today’s podcast I chat with Ines Vogeler, the brain behind TIE’s strategy. And we reflect on all of this.

For over 30 years, Ines worked at Leo Burnett as a global Strategic Planner. She interviewed people in their natural habitats all over the world to uncover the provocative nuggets that allowed others to understand people from the inside-out.

A few years ago I was so lucky to have captured the attention of Ines, and since then, she has been helping us hone our messaging.

Where TIE was strategically, even a few years ago, is very different to where we are now.

And we cover a lot in this conversation.

We talk about the power of community. What that means. And what happens when you manage to create that.

Ines talks to us about the power of following your instinct and what happens when you push yourself to do something before you’re ready.

We hear about the power of thinking differently and human brands.

And then we dive into us working together and how Ines helped us evolve our strategy. We talk about what was originally blinding us and what is happening now.

She also tells you why she thought I would never talk to her again – which I’m still, to this day, mortified by.

Ines is an absolute force. You’ll enjoy this one. So throw on those running shoes, or grab that favorite beverage, and here is Ines.

And please don’t forget to let us know what you think of this episode, leave a review and subscribe.

00:00:02:05 – 00:00:27:03
Philiippa White
Welcome to the show, where we unearth new ways of looking at ever evolving lights around the world. Seen from a number of different industries, cultures and backgrounds. But there’s one thing that unites everyone I speak to. They all want to do their part to make the world better in their own unique ways. It’s a uniting passion. Whether they’re from the commercial world, third sector or public sector from the Global North or the global south.

00:00:27:15 – 00:00:59:11
Philiippa White
My name is Philippa White and welcome to TIE Unearthed. Hello and welcome to episode 42 of TIE Unearthed. Today we have none other than Ines Vogler. With us, the brain behind tie strategy. Now, for over 30 years, Ines worked at Leo Burnett as a global strategic planner. She interviewed people in their natural habitats all over the world to uncover the provocative nuggets, the loud others to understand people from the inside out.

00:00:59:24 – 00:01:27:04
Philiippa White
She’s known for her unique capability for empathy, for listening to what has not yet been articulated and unearthing ideas with clarity and insight. Ines has an incredible ability to courageously challenge clients and have them look at issues and opportunities in totally unexpected ways. She’s funny and super humble and this mix has really helped keep clients honest with themselves and focused.

00:01:27:15 – 00:01:50:01
Philiippa White
And I’ve experienced this personally many times, and I feel so lucky to have captured the attention of Ines and to receive her ongoing support. Where Tie was strategically, even just a few years ago is very different to where we are now. So today we talk about how Ines got involved with Tie, why she thought I’d never talk to her again, which I’m still mortified by.

00:01:50:14 – 00:02:07:09
Philiippa White
The power of purpose and how her power of being able to think differently has helped us on our tie story. Ines is an absolute force. You’ll enjoy this one. So throw on those running shoes or grab the favorite beverage. And here’s Ines.

00:02:08:23 – 00:02:13:20
Philippa White
Ines, it is lovely to have you with us today. Thank you so much for joining me.

00:02:13:20 – 00:02:37:17
Ines Vogeler
How are you? I’m doing fine. I really appreciate your invitation, especially because it means that you are pushing me out of my comfort zone. Thank you. Is putting work behind the curtain, which is where the fun happens because that’s when you have to use your ingenuity and, you know, take in the whole thing in order to make things work.

00:02:38:06 – 00:02:43:05
Ines Vogeler
So I thank you for inviting me. Not for the not.

00:02:45:00 – 00:02:59:07
Philippa White
For them, but does well as early as early. Who works with tie and is also a powerhouse at tie. As she said, you were born to shine. And this is this is what this is all about. We’re putting you in the limelight. And I’m excited.

00:02:59:17 – 00:03:00:17
Ines Vogeler
We’re thank you all.

00:03:01:01 – 00:03:28:14
Philippa White
While you’re there. But you deserve your reward. This is important because as I mentioned in the intro, Ines, you have been such a god, such an important part of Ty’s story over the past, over a year now. And I just I just really would like other people to know your story and why you are such an important person in Ty’s life.

00:03:28:19 – 00:03:38:10
Philippa White
So, first, can you just tell us a little bit about you and your story? Where do you come from? A little bit about your background to bring you to life?

00:03:38:14 – 00:04:17:02
Ines Vogeler
I was born and raised in Venezuela. I’m the daughter of a German immigrant and a Venezuelan lady, beautiful lady who fell in love the day they met. So it’s absolutely a beautiful story. I’m the third of eight brothers and sisters and I was sort of a rebel my whole life. My background from university stays industrial relation, which is human resources, which in reality I never practice and I have to confess that I didn’t choose the career my father did for me because he thought that I had the way I work and he discovered it.

00:04:17:03 – 00:04:44:03
Ines Vogeler
I never did spoiler before. It was my connection with people. I was a people’s person and when I was in a finishing school in Switzerland where I got my German diploma or German, which I have forgotten. Of course. And the only question. So you chose my career for you? I really chose what resonated with me. The only question I ask him is how much math there was.

00:04:44:04 – 00:05:12:24
Ines Vogeler
Because math is not my friend, my enemy. Although I’ve done every book of quantitative research. The good thing I didn’t have to add or just percentages. So it was by accident that I got into advertising because a friend of a friend, she was the client service director at work, the films and at the same time she just came back from doing her bit in psychology.

00:05:13:03 – 00:05:38:07
Ines Vogeler
So she had two jobs. She was the client service director. As I said before, but she was a human resources person as well. And she developed this research, internal research, to assess the climate, the work and environment and how people felt with the company. But she needed somebody who was not related because it was an anonymous research. So she contacted me.

00:05:38:16 – 00:06:06:18
Ines Vogeler
And of course, at university you learn where to look at so you have no clue what you’re doing. So my first record I was supposed to tabulate and to write that report, I had no idea how to do that. So but finally it was great and we did the same thing for that. And I know that working in departments at Budget Films, it was so much fun that I said, Is there anything I can do here?

00:06:06:18 – 00:06:30:13
Ines Vogeler
And they said, Yeah, the research department is in the research department. What is that? What do they do? So that explained what it was, and they needed somebody who would hire people for the group sessions, and then they needed somebody to help with the coding books that they created with. For this one big research. And I did that for, I would say two, three years.

00:06:30:18 – 00:06:56:02
Ines Vogeler
And that’s how I learned how to really form answers. Quantitative answer from 11,000 people or whoever to really come up with what was the concept behind the concept idea? And that was an amazing training. But I really did enjoy the job so much as I enjoyed the people and the fun that we would have. I didn’t want to go home because it was so much fun.

00:06:56:08 – 00:07:00:07
Philippa White
Where was this? And is is this in Venezuela? In Caracas.

00:07:01:14 – 00:07:37:20
Ines Vogeler
Venezuela. Then I started to look into group sessions and to transcribe what was going on. So sort of I was learning from the doing the the most basic thing. That was my case. And then one day the general manager, I was it was lunchtime and I was working on this transcription of a WhatsApp group session and he came, this is this desperate because he needed a fast report, a flash report because the client was coming in, I don’t know, an hour or something like that.

00:07:37:20 – 00:08:02:09
Ines Vogeler
And there was nobody there. I was the only one. And he said, Can you please do that? I said, I have no clue. You have to do something to help me out. So I did. I went to their files and they saw how the flash reports are reported and I just did it. And then the research assistant quit in my my husband had lost his job because there was a change in his company as usual.

00:08:02:11 – 00:08:31:02
Ines Vogeler
And I got a job for a research assistant and a couple of months later and that’s what I learned to write reports. And then a couple of months later, my mentor at what? So the lady who was the client service director on the human resources, she quit and went to leave the day she came to the research firm quit and she called me, said, you can do it.

00:08:31:10 – 00:09:00:14
Ines Vogeler
I have I cannot do it. I don’t know what’s the difference between a feminist, what you think of research, how can I write a proposal? And she said, Oh, you do it. So I went to the interview with a general manager and he said, What do you know about it? I said, I have no clue yesterday. So that’s how I started my career in advertising by accident without knowing anything and yes, driven by instinct.

00:09:00:20 – 00:09:02:01
Ines Vogeler
Oh, incredible.

00:09:02:15 – 00:09:07:06
Philippa White
And so you started in in cut Colombia at Leo BURNETT at Giverny.

00:09:07:08 – 00:09:27:15
Ines Vogeler
And then I woke up every day at three or 4:00 in the morning to to study. I had all the marketing tools, all the search and, you know, the tools, the whatever. And that’s how I learned on the job. I remember we had a no business pitch, and of course, I had no idea what a business pitch was.

00:09:27:21 – 00:09:56:15
Ines Vogeler
So I spent the whole night my poor husband was listening to me because I had to learn the by heart the next day, like I think the whole thing. And there was, there was a media person who asked media direct the whole office that for the first time I understand what the research department is and the value. And I said, I am so glad you did because I have no idea what I sit.

00:09:56:15 – 00:10:26:05
Ines Vogeler
You know, it’s embarrassing to say that is that you have to be humble to recognize that many times in life we are not prepared to face that challenge and we still do. And I think that’s something like an adventure. You never know what’s behind the next curve. So that’s how we started, I think. And there I was the research director for ten, 12 years, and then came database marketing.

00:10:26:07 – 00:10:55:09
Ines Vogeler
And by accident again, there was a client who heard about doing that very smart and of course I was the person in research. Chicago decided I was the person to call. I had no idea about database marketing either, but then, you know, that preparation that I had with what they think is research. And the thing that I love about what they say the research is finding a story between the numbers.

00:10:55:20 – 00:11:29:08
Ines Vogeler
You go from one chart to that one table to the other and then find out why you are people disappearing from one question to the other. So it was an amazing experience and I did that for a couple of I think one or two years. And then it grew so much that I had to hire somebody who had more experience than I was, though I loved it because it was it was like a puzzle and it was amazing what we learn with credit cards.

00:11:29:08 – 00:11:53:20
Ines Vogeler
This is the hypothesis that the bank had that loan. They thought that those people who have more money are the ones who would pay. It was not true. It’s the no class who pays for the credit cards, which is survival. And that through the whole marketing program for them was really it was so much fun. So much fun.

00:11:54:00 – 00:12:23:05
Ines Vogeler
We decided to turn all the research people into strategic planning. So there was a Maidenform that I see Marlena Brickman visiting, a wonderful friend of mine and myself. We were invited to Chicago to learn about when and you know, the only thing that really, really struck me, like my my guiding light was they gave us the permission to think differently.

00:12:23:13 – 00:13:00:04
Ines Vogeler
And that to me was what opened my eyes in my mind to just come with different perspectives. The famous what did you know? So that to me was very liberating. So then the research department disappeared and they they started to do much more planning, which started in Chic in London. And the funny thing is that my, my husband by that time had passed away and I had I made a trip with my daughter and my son, who were already in their 1920s and we went to Europe.

00:13:00:04 – 00:13:19:16
Ines Vogeler
So my general manager from Caracas said, go to London where they have flown in, learn. The funny thing is that usually Ishikawa would send somebody to learn about planning. They would spend three months, six months learning it. I had 48 hours.

00:13:19:16 – 00:13:20:06
Philippa White
So I.

00:13:20:06 – 00:13:46:17
Ines Vogeler
Said only how do I do it? But you know, it was not the first night that I had to do something. I had no clue. But since I knew about the permission to think differently, that to me was fine. And so I went back to went to Venezuela and I was supposed to be they divided the region to the north of Latin America, in the south of Latin America.

00:13:47:06 – 00:14:17:04
Ines Vogeler
Maloney was supposed to get all the South, and I would go Mexico and all those countries in Central America. It happened to be that. Then they decided that they wanted to have a regional center. And that’s how I came to Miami over 20 years ago. And then, you know, to make the story short, a couple of years later, when we turned out to be a public company, you had to have be part of a plane flying.

00:14:17:21 – 00:14:26:09
Ines Vogeler
So you were not stuff anymore. I mean at that time. Negus Who’s my best friend as well then my idea.

00:14:26:09 – 00:14:33:24
Philippa White
And who is actually Neil this is a shout out to you if you listen to this. Obviously it was Neil that put me in touch with you.

00:14:34:05 – 00:15:11:12
Ines Vogeler
So yes, he because we were creating a it made a thinking methodology for global note which was called the brand value system. The essence of that idea was that relationship with brands are sectional and they have to try to be human. So we had to create where we were thinking strategy, who the brand is, what it does. And you have to then over time check how it was meant to touch every point of the brand from the essence to the purpose to the company manufacturing everything.

00:15:11:18 – 00:15:48:24
Ines Vogeler
So it was a fascinating thing, but it didn’t it didn’t connect with Lebanon at that time. So neat connecting with the people. Ugly London, who was the global director for low income markets and he saw the work that we had done for Coca-Cola. And he said, yes. So that’s how I started. First, 10% of my time, then 40% until I was I would say in the 2000, I was the global candidate for the account of the energy detergents.

00:15:49:14 – 00:16:26:10
Ines Vogeler
And the best part was low income markets, which was so much more profitable than Europe or whatever, because that you have to be scoring everything and just going to the people’s houses and talk about the kids. Then you know, they would show you their their catwalks and their where they had their clothes. And, you know, I remember once asking a lady in China the first time I went to China that show something that it’s really white and bright and your proud of our western point of view it was great.

00:16:26:16 – 00:16:52:04
Ines Vogeler
But, you know, it’s it’s a mixture of their way. They wash the products the quality of the water. But, you know, we were promising things that didn’t have anything to do with her. So that was fascinating. So it also allowed me to to travel around the world and go to places Australia, South Africa, China, Russia and Egypt market.

00:16:52:09 – 00:17:19:07
Ines Vogeler
So I was it was it was my passion and then I because I go, oh, what can you do? And after I retired, Neil put me in connection with you. Yeah, that being true to my things differently. I remember you gave me because I’m a coach as well and it was I initially the idea was to work with coaches, but you already have a fabulous coaching journeys.

00:17:19:14 – 00:17:33:24
Ines Vogeler
So and this was always a pro bono because I was I want to do something that really challenges my mind because my mind is a challenge. I’m happy you gave me your web page, the content of your witness.

00:17:33:24 – 00:17:34:09
Philippa White
Yes.

00:17:34:17 – 00:18:12:24
Ines Vogeler
And as I said, you know, because we we strategic planners are allowed we have the permission to think differently. We are quite disruptive or very disruptive with the content of your Web page. And I remember sending it to you saying, I might not hear from you again, which happened I know well. And I said, I’m not going to contact her because she might be one of those client service directors who are not very open to hear a different point of view.

00:18:12:24 – 00:18:22:15
Ines Vogeler
And this was totally different, I think. And then a year after I got an email from you thanking me for the work that I had done.

00:18:22:22 – 00:18:39:11
Philippa White
A year before now for Our Lives. I know. Isn’t that crazy for our listeners? It was such a crazy time. I can’t even remember when that was because that was maybe three years ago. I think it was before or even more four years ago. It was it was before the it was certainly way before the pandemic.

00:18:39:19 – 00:18:41:01
Ines Vogeler
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:41:01 – 00:19:04:10
Philippa White
And we were I remember I got in touch and you had totally disrupted like the entire page. And what it did was I realized, oh my God, she’s right. And I really need to rethink a lot of all of this. And I ended up getting into a bit of a spiral because there was so much happening at the time.

00:19:04:15 – 00:19:20:21
Philippa White
And I obviously very rudely and I would please anyone if I do go. So please don’t take it that I don’t like you. It’s literally, I think, like my brain just kind of went a little bit, oh my God, I really think and I had this sort of on my list of things to do. I need to get in touch with.

00:19:20:21 – 00:19:31:04
Philippa White
It has, but it was kind of a thing of I need to really dove into this and anyway publicly saying I’m very, very sorry for taking so long to get back, but I’m so happy that I did.

00:19:31:21 – 00:19:46:01
Ines Vogeler
Know what happened to me during my professional life so many times that I would use the people, you know, to shake up people. It’s not that I totally understand, you know, totally understand that.

00:19:46:07 – 00:20:08:15
Philippa White
It was very rude of me, but it like what it did was the fact and, you know, never change because being a disruptor is so important because it it does it shakes people. And you have to be open to that change. You have to be open to that change because as long as long as it’s in the right kind of direction of where you want it to go, because, you know, I mean, but change is not a bad thing.

00:20:08:16 – 00:20:28:10
Philippa White
And it was just fantastic that I then did, obviously. I mean, I was always meaning to get back, just I can’t believe it. And it just goes to show how crazy that particular time was. And then we kind of reignited the big conversation, which I’ll of course, things kind of moved on quite a bit from there because of course, then COVID obviously happened.

00:20:28:10 – 00:20:32:01
Philippa White
But I guess that’s how everything kind of kicked off. Was it it?

00:20:32:03 – 00:20:57:22
Ines Vogeler
I have to recognize that one of the reasons why I enjoy working with you so much, so much, is that you are so open to seeing things. And that is a to me to give the best work I always had did was with people who were open to rethink what they were saying. You know, I remember Coca-Cola when they came.

00:20:58:02 – 00:21:41:12
Ines Vogeler
It was, I think, 96. Venezuela was one of the few countries in the world where Coca Cola was not the new one. And they both had the distribution with literally. So the distribution took over, collected Pepsi overnight. And so Coca-Cola came. They fired the agency and we won the pitch. And the thing is that they came with a bad in because in Venezuela, people really thought that Pepsi was even a local brand and American could not come and just we are Coca Cola we are you know it was sort of a customer to chocolate.

00:21:42:01 – 00:22:08:07
Ines Vogeler
And I remember my father saying when he was a sales representative for a pharmaceutical, he sold his products around Venezuela and he said, you cannot sell products. The first thing you have to go around say hello as for the family, it’s a big statement and then you can do business the next day. And that was a platform for reintroducing Coca Cola in Venezuela.

00:22:08:14 – 00:22:30:03
Ines Vogeler
It was amazing. But, you know, they were open to put their friends aside and try to use a cultural metaphor to build a strategy, a communication platform, which which was just amazing, was unheard of. You know, that to me was the most fascinating time in my as well.

00:22:30:05 – 00:22:50:05
Philippa White
Now, this has been a crazy year for Ty. You know, the last year and a half, two years. It’s been a crazy year for everybody. I mean, a lot of people have faced a lot of challenges and we are no different. And as I was mentioning, you know, I’m just so grateful for Neil for putting us in touch all those years ago.

00:22:50:19 – 00:23:21:03
Philippa White
And of course, we started the conversation, first of all, a whole. Can you look at our site? What do you think of the language? But obviously it became a much bigger conversation than the website, and particularly reflecting on all of the change that Ty faced through, you know, the challenges with COVID, we had to really revamp everything and including we really did have to look at our strategy and really properly understand why are people engaging?

00:23:21:03 – 00:23:46:08
Philippa White
What is it about the experience that is truly game changing and as you’re the brain behind a lot of this thinking, oh, I just think it would be really interesting for our listeners to just understand from your point of view, where, where were things, how did you find Ty? As in how was it, how were we communicating at the time?

00:23:46:10 – 00:23:53:12
Philippa White
How did we evolve? What to in how do you see things as far as how how things then got to where they are now?

00:23:53:14 – 00:24:23:12
Ines Vogeler
Well, it’s not an easy question because again, the two of us in our conversation, we were discovering things together. So there is not a me and you, it is us. You challenged my thinking. I challenging your thinking. But the thing is said, when I started to read your web page, what really struck me was the unique context where this training happened, which to me was a competitive advantage.

00:24:23:19 – 00:24:46:11
Ines Vogeler
Why? Because you know, you go to the university, as I was saying, when I went to university, yeah, I learned statistics. I learned I had no clue how to apply. You know, you go back or you go to a workshop. Wonderful. You have a wonderful time, especially if you say you sing Kumbaya. But how do you apply that to the every day?

00:24:46:14 – 00:25:13:02
Ines Vogeler
Then the every day attracts you again and you forget all what you were exposed to. And being a coach and always to. When I look at my life and people, it’s different when you experience yourself the insight, when you do that inner understand then allows you to say, Oh my or I never have. I never thought it this way.

00:25:13:07 – 00:25:55:13
Ines Vogeler
And I thought it was the social context or the social impact I think was sort of blinding us at the beginning. There were two things that were with one leadership, and the second one was the emphasis on leaders as our target and the social issues as the object in it. I thought, you know, if we go and compare ourselves to the regular even coaching or academy offers in workshops, you know, the difference was how we got people to learn and to grow within.

00:25:55:13 – 00:26:36:21
Ines Vogeler
And we were not touching that. I thought it was we were missing the point and people would understand this is a volunteering thing. It’s wonderful. My company’s paying for it. Reading through all the answers that people will give after the audit, the way of the personal understanding, the personal insight, how they started to learn who they are and what makes them tick from a much profound way to it was about bringing meaning with maybe was and then with changing even the work that we’re doing so much.

00:26:36:21 – 00:27:04:23
Ines Vogeler
And S.M. means to an end to something that would sustain them internally. So of course, I mean, if we’ve been talking about this two years for two years now, the clarity that we have today that four years ago we may not round it, but we never really express it that way. And I remember talking about the social issue with the couple of the growth.

00:27:05:05 – 00:27:08:13
Philippa White
That was the turning point when you said that? That was the turning point.

00:27:08:13 – 00:27:37:03
Ines Vogeler
Yeah, I think it’s the medicine. What makes you so you in so long term impact because people experience themselves what is it that based on like, you know, it brings your body and once you understand the values and you live with those values as your guiding light, you know, choices that are easier, you feel much more fulfilled. And so there’s a sense of well-being.

00:27:37:03 – 00:27:53:13
Ines Vogeler
And that’s that’s where people can choose in a much more informed way, where they’re going to work, what they’re going to do and what point to say no to which to me is more important than saying yes to.

00:27:53:17 – 00:28:18:03
Philippa White
Listening to you talk. Because, as you know, we have an article that we need to write to go out this week, and it’s based on the great resignation and how purpose is so important in people’s careers. And actually question mark will know is purpose what is the answer to kind of keep people? And I would say yes. And I’ve got so many opinions about this.

00:28:18:03 – 00:28:44:19
Philippa White
And of course, well, we’re sort of putting something together. But Maya, my seven year old, asked me to watch a movie with her this weekend and her sister was out at a friend’s house. And we watched the movie in council, which for anybody listening to this, I’m covering these folks. You can just say it. Watch this movie. Now, it’s interesting that you didn’t you didn’t see purpose as a as sort of an outcome of that.

00:28:44:19 – 00:29:13:01
Philippa White
But I did. And that for me, I, I cried throughout it actually, because I just found it so unbelievable. And I think the reason is because what I find so it just comes back to why I started TIE actually, because what is so suffocating is people feeling stuck in a box or in a convention or in in a certain way of doing things.

00:29:13:07 – 00:29:39:10
Philippa White
And they can’t even see past that because they haven’t had the opportunity to see past that. They don’t know anything different or victims of our circumstances. And this movie showed people who had this gift, this one person didn’t until she then realized it. And that was when the magic came back. And I just think it is that it’s this magic that we’re unearthing through these experiences.

00:29:39:10 – 00:30:03:15
Philippa White
And time and time again, we have people you know, I had somebody who he grew up in Kensington Palace, you know, and we had him in Brasilia tables also, which is sort of a community almost favela in Brazil. And he was living there for 30 days. That was sort of before we went virtual. We’ve had people who come from incredibly posh backgrounds and and had never had the opportunity to sort of break out of that.

00:30:03:15 – 00:30:34:15
Philippa White
And and they find themselves having to get into the heads and minds and lives of transsexual street workers in Brazil. And it’s through that experience of breaking out of the confines of society and jobs in silos and suddenly seeing the world in a completely different way that unleashes that magic. And that magic is that purpose. And and I think it’s that I really I didn’t get that part.

00:30:35:08 – 00:30:51:04
Philippa White
I heard it. I heard it because when I then go back through all of the evaluations, which I ended up doing after working with you, and it’s because I sort of start to go back through all of the evaluations and reading them. And time and time again, that’s what kept coming back. It’s, Oh, my God, I realize what I’m what makes me tick.

00:30:51:04 – 00:31:14:04
Philippa White
I realized what, you know, I needed to push myself in this way to be able to really realize what was important to me or what, you know, where my skills lie or oh, my God, now I know what I want to focus on. Or Now I know what actually really drives me. And, and that is the key. And I think, you know, there’s somebody who is also one of my mentors, Jim Bullock, and he he set up a similar organization that worked with an eccentric called ADP.

00:31:14:13 – 00:31:37:23
Philippa White
And actually, he’s been on a podcast as well. And he often said, you know, as I would be talking to him, the key is don’t change, companies don’t change, industries change the company or industry you’re in. And if your feeling a certain way, then probably other people are feeling that too. And then you just need to unearth the confidence and the understanding and those insights to then make that change.

00:31:37:23 – 00:31:53:02
Philippa White
It’s through working with you and this that we unearthed that because I was all over the place, I sort of felt like, is is it saving the world? Is it leadership become a better word, like a better leader or, you know, let’s make the world a better place? And yes, all of that happens. But that’s actually not the focus.

00:31:53:17 – 00:31:54:18
Philippa White
And we cracked that.

00:31:54:18 – 00:32:36:18
Ines Vogeler
I feel if we wouldn’t have happened, I don’t think we would have had the clarity that we have today because, you know, it’s still the world which meant that suddenly you were confronted with a challenge that made you formidable. It made you think, what is it that I am doing? Why am I accepting what others are imposing on me to talk to your what you said about being straight, you know, everybody was imitating the others because the values that everybody was going about was my career, the ladder, the corporation.

00:32:36:18 – 00:33:02:15
Ines Vogeler
And if you remember and I was thinking the other day when the depression in 2000, 7008, you know, there was so many surviving and then suddenly you were exposed to to work for you and somebody else to covered for them because they were not working anymore. So everybody was stressed out. You were doing the work from two or three people.

00:33:02:19 – 00:33:35:20
Ines Vogeler
So but because it was happening all over the world and everybody was going through the same stress, you could hear it, you know? And I think that no, you know, we were living that for many, many years. And suddenly you are at home with your family and say, what am I doing with my life? You know? So I think that it’s a combination of circumstances where, yes, we started at that time, it was really to only think about leaders within the company because that’s where the connection hurt.

00:33:36:10 – 00:34:05:17
Ines Vogeler
But as we read more, as we as people started to work again or looking for jobs, suddenly they people say, no, not for me anymore. Because there is a I think the word is a thirst for something bigger than I. Yeah. And in order to what is that bigger than I am. Well you have to go to step into your and discover what is it that you have.

00:34:05:17 – 00:34:11:13
Ines Vogeler
What are divide to say you have so that you can align them with the organization anyway. Exactly.

00:34:12:11 – 00:34:35:03
Philippa White
And actually that’s interesting. Just also when we were trying to cooperate just to complement that because when we were creating our strategy with vision and again, kind of back to this, the great resignation point, you know, so many people when you’re feeling that sense of uneasiness, that thirst for something bigger, that sort of, oh, what else is out there?

00:34:35:15 – 00:35:11:19
Philippa White
The natural maybe response is, okay, let’s just change everything. I’m going to quit my job and do something else. And it’s looking externally, isn’t it? It’s looking externally to solve that inner feeling. And actually, I think what we also unearthed with all of this thinking is and what I’m super excited about because we see it is going through something like this and pushing yourself in that way, you are actually able to start to unearth that inner vision or that inner understanding, and it almost silences those voices.

00:35:12:01 – 00:35:36:23
Philippa White
And then you have that clarity to be able to, if you can make big things happen where you’re at. I mean, if no one’s listening to you and, you know, if you feel like you’re talking and no one’s valuing you, then, you know, of course you’re in the wrong place. But if you can find ways to make real change where you’re at, but it’s figuring out what that means, how you know, what that looks like for you, that it is so much more powerful.

00:35:37:04 – 00:35:44:01
Philippa White
And that’s actually where a lot of the big change happens because you have access to the contacts and you have access to the resources.

00:35:44:02 – 00:36:07:10
Ines Vogeler
And, you know, the fascinating thing is that change can only happen with the individual when they connect with each other. And the other thing that I find interesting, what is going on is that the conversations that people have today, it’s much deeper in the sense that it’s not only the paycheck, it’s not only the promotion, but it’s about know.

00:36:07:18 – 00:36:36:05
Ines Vogeler
In what ways do you think that you are contributing or, you know, I think that the mindset is changing, not for everybody. I mean, there are many, many people who who have to work in and, you know, especially the low class. And they’re desperate. They don’t have a choice. But those who have a choice are making it much more personal connection with a company, with who they are and where they are.

00:36:36:09 – 00:36:58:00
Ines Vogeler
It’s a sense of belonging. Suddenly, you know, when you are value based, the perfect purpose base is a belonging in the company. Remember, I do want it correct that the company wasn’t a public, it was a private company. There was a sense of community. There was a pitch that we had and we had to work the whole night.

00:36:58:08 – 00:37:29:23
Ines Vogeler
There were people who were not attached to the pitch, who were not attached to the account, and they stayed overnight with us as a sense of community. There was a collaboration. We would do that. The most absurd things like making photocopies or typing something which was not. But this sense of community was amazing. And because the world has into a very materialistic society, we have forgotten what it means to everybody going to the same place.

00:37:29:23 – 00:38:05:05
Ines Vogeler
Because then you can align with the company and with its company set forth with yourself. I wasn’t how why? A couple weeks ago I went to a Patagonia store, which is a company I had profoundly admire, that they had the guts to align their with who they are and what they do and how they it. And the gentleman who was the manager of the store, it was amazing how we took Patagonia as part of who he is because the value and the purpose resonates so much with him.

00:38:05:11 – 00:38:13:14
Ines Vogeler
And I think that what you are doing with site is helping people clarify who they are and what they stand for.

00:38:13:18 – 00:38:36:14
Philippa White
Oh, exactly. So we have come to the end of our podcast. I mean, I could be sitting here chatting. I mean, we do we spend hours on the phone most weeks, actually. So I mean, for our listeners, this is, you know, after this will be having another cut of our conversation tomorrow. But but is there anything else that you would like to say or is there anything else that I haven’t asked you that you’d like to tell our listeners?

00:38:36:18 – 00:38:59:14
Ines Vogeler
I think that one of the things that we talk when we were talking only about either is leading from within. And I think that is still true as a human person, you know, you are living your life from within you, leaving your choices from within because you learn to say yes to what resonates and know what it doesn’t.

00:39:00:03 – 00:39:20:10
Ines Vogeler
And I think that is the wonder of SCI as an exponential developing forum because it exposes you, takes you out of your comfort zone and exposes you to realities you never imagined before. And that’s why it’s so powerful to create and change one at a time.

00:39:20:14 – 00:39:44:13
Philippa White
One one person, one project, one company at a time. Totally. Thank you. Well, thank you for your time today. I love listening to your stories. I know that our listeners will, too, and I just am so grateful to you and for your time and dedication and just willingness to share your brain, because we’re very lucky and you’ve got a great brain.

00:39:44:16 – 00:40:02:03
Ines Vogeler
It’s just fun, you know, it’s it’s just so exciting when you when you post a question or you say, we have to write this or whatever, you know, it fills my mind, my my brain challenge, because some of the questions are I have no idea, but let’s see how we go around this.

00:40:02:13 – 00:40:13:00
Philippa White
Well, I feel very privileged as well to be able to continuously push you out of your comfort zone and get you doing different things. So it’s funny on different levels. Time managing to do this.

00:40:13:02 – 00:40:15:14
Ines Vogeler
Exactly. So I have things you.

00:40:16:10 – 00:40:20:13
Philippa White
Thank you for everything and as soon.

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