Hope in Iraq and Syria

Following the fall of the Saddam regime in Iraq, the first ever treatment centre for survivors of torture and war violence was opened in 2005.

The centre is called the Jiyan Foundation for Human Rights and on Friday I spoke with Salah Ahmad, the Founder.

Salah is child and family therapist from Iraq, who after experiencing flight and exile himself, has made it his mission to improve access to psychological assistance for victims of violence in Iraq and Syria.

Ever stop to think how people work through the pain of terror, torture and war? How accessible that type of support is? And what happens if people aren’t treated?

Learn about the significant challenges the region faces.

But also hear of Salah’s hope.

I was truly inspired and moved by the stories.

No doubt you will be too.

Have a listen here.

If you would like to support the Jiyan Foundation for Human Rights or learn more about their work, please click here.

00:00:07:23 – 00:00:29:16
Philippa White
So the questions are these. How can we really activate the best of the private sector to meet the challenges of the real world? Is there a way to accelerate my career that doesn’t involve boring online or classroom courses? And can I really impact people in the developing world with the skills that I have? Can I finally feel proud of what I know?

00:00:30:09 – 00:00:54:03
Philippa White
Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Philippa White and this is TIE Unearthed. Keep listening and you can follow us on our journey as we show you how we’re connecting the private sector with the social sector to make change.

00:00:56:14 – 00:01:25:04
Philippa White
Hello everyone. Philippa White here and welcome to Episode seven of Ties Podcast. Now today I’m speaking with Sala Ahmad, the founder of Sian Foundation for Human Rights, and I’m speaking with him in Berlin. Now, Sala is a child and family therapist trained in Germany. And during his many years at the Treatment Center for Torture and Violence Victims in Berlin, he treated hundreds of traumatized refugees from dozens of countries.

00:01:25:23 – 00:02:00:22
Philippa White
Sala, who also experienced flight and exile, has always been committed to human rights, minority interests, the prevention of violence, and improved access to psychological assistance for victims of violence in Iraq. Following the fall of the Saddam regime, Salah returned to his native Iraq, where he opened the first treatment center for survivors of torture and war violence. During the following years, he used his many years of experience to establish the concept of psychotherapy and trauma treatment in Iraq.

00:02:01:17 – 00:02:21:10
Philippa White
Salah regularly commutes between Germany and Iraq, and the success and reputation of the Sian Foundation enables it to influence policymakers, which in turn has a positive impact on patients lives. So Salah, hello, it really is such a pleasure to have you with us today.

00:02:21:11 – 00:02:26:23
Salah Ahmad
Thank you for having me on. I am very happy to have this interview. Thank you.

00:02:28:17 – 00:03:04:19
Philippa White
Oh, good. And we can’t wait to raise awareness of the really important work that you do. So as you know, Salah, we will be working with you Energy on Foundation shortly for our Time Accelerator program, which we’re really excited about. And we have a fantastic team of professionals coming together from around the world to help you find a way to generate income to support your healing garden for survivors of trauma and terror and I thought what a great way to be able to raise awareness to so many of the other people out there who listened to to this podcast to help share your story, because I think it’s so important that people know about what

00:03:04:19 – 00:03:18:24
Philippa White
you’re working on, what you’re all fighting for, and the incredible work that you do. So I just wonder if you can start by telling our listeners about you the work you do and the story of how and why the organization was set up.

00:03:19:00 – 00:03:45:09
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, thank you very much. First, I want to say I apologize because my English isn’t so Patrick, and I hope that everyone understand me. It will be. Yeah, this is my first point. And then secondly, you know, to start with the history, it was so that we had that no regime for 40 years, Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship.

00:03:45:24 – 00:04:23:01
Salah Ahmad
And later we had a big war with Iran in Iraq and there were isolated and this society hasn’t any any peace many. And we have told them traumatized people in this country. And 15 years ago it was the same that we had so many traumatized family with they destroyed because the violence from the government against the Kurds fast and later against everyone in this country.

00:04:23:10 – 00:05:01:01
Salah Ahmad
And this made me to to establish the press center in Kirkuk in 2005. And it was very difficult because we hadn’t any psychotherapist I had tried to train my staff and it was very difficult because the stigma that the people they didn’t accept psychotherapy to come to the therapy and they was in a very bad coma. And but it was difficult for them all this to lose, to solve all this problem.

00:05:01:11 – 00:05:24:22
Salah Ahmad
It was in the past the very, very difficult. Thank many friends and organizations that we succeeded to establish a big team and a very powerful team in this country. And we was the first center for violent and tortured victims in the country. You know? Wow.

00:05:25:00 – 00:05:26:09
Philippa White
Yeah, how extraordinary.

00:05:26:09 – 00:05:43:17
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. And it was so much after one year we had so many patients and the needs. We know that it was very huge. Huge. We have today cloud centers in different area in this country. We have.

00:05:43:17 – 00:05:44:09
Philippa White
Colleagues.

00:05:44:16 – 00:06:23:18
Salah Ahmad
Yeah we with one and 12 staff and now we have 12 centers with 270 staff. You know, it is a big number for us and to to finance this this project, it is, of course, difficult, very difficult. We need many help. We need many donations. We need people, friends like you, to organization your programs to help because we work for peace for everyone in the world.

00:06:23:18 – 00:06:42:04
Philippa White
Yeah. Maybe you can tell us a bit about the challenges that you face in your part of the world so that our listeners can better understand the realities on the ground. And perhaps you can tell us things that they may not know the area that you know what the work that you’re doing and how you’re supporting them.

00:06:42:04 – 00:07:28:20
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, what I say in that first minute that mental health is a stigma for many people. They didn’t speak about on trauma or because the people, they say that they are crazy. This is what we establish. If it was only mental health in the past, I am a native to help many women. They didn’t come because this plane we established the medical department in this sector that the woman or children, they see, that they go to the doctor, not to the psychotherapy, but they get into psychotherapy because the society added stigma.

00:07:29:03 – 00:08:12:15
Salah Ahmad
We done this and it was very, very good for many women, which we can have without any stigmatization, you know? Yeah, yeah. This was and and that big problem. And the second problem we had any psychotherapist in the country in Middle East, you don’t find so much psychotherapy and in Iraq we haven’t any school with they the people with therapy and this was the second big challenge was we solve it to train all the staff every time and every and from every country.

00:08:12:15 – 00:08:21:14
Salah Ahmad
We had friends. Would they come to Kurdistan and help us to train our staff to have been that big and struck team, you know.

00:08:23:02 – 00:08:27:08
Philippa White
While so there’s no training nor psychotherapy. No.

00:08:27:12 – 00:09:01:21
Salah Ahmad
That there is psychological study. Yeah. Only it doesn’t help for treatment, you know, and this is what we changed now in the country. We have after 15 years so and positive issue that every university they have some department for psychotherapy and clinical psychology which we hadn’t that in the time in the beginning in 2005. Yeah and this was young then you.

00:09:01:21 – 00:09:02:17
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. I’m sorry.

00:09:03:05 – 00:09:08:08
Philippa White
Can you explain so. No, no, that’s fine. Finish. I think there was a bit of a delay. Finish what you were saying. Oh, no.

00:09:08:08 – 00:09:12:00
Salah Ahmad
I am finish please. As what you want. Okay. Yeah.

00:09:12:12 – 00:09:36:03
Philippa White
No, I just wanted to see if you could explain for our listeners why psychotherapy is so important and why the work that you’re doing is so important. What is what what are the types of stories that that you can tell? Or if you can tell us about the beneficiaries of the the work that you’re doing, what’s the reality on the ground there?

00:09:36:03 – 00:09:45:00
Philippa White
What have people experienced that is so important to to to support them with psychotherapy?

00:09:45:03 – 00:10:22:14
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. You know, we had many, for example, tortured victims. Yeah. And we have many woman there was in the prison and they was raped by policemen and by the forces we have people with they destroyed and a big village, for example, from them and they hadn’t any place. All these people, they feel as if we speak about the rape, the two men she feel the first time guilty.

00:10:23:09 – 00:11:01:03
Salah Ahmad
Why in me they feel so bad and this psychological condition it is so bad you can they cannot accept help again. And this made them to to think about. So it feared about to kill also or to don’t leave, you know, in this society and to give them again the hope and to that they are not guilty. It is a difficult work and you can do it only through psychotherapy, not medical care or medicine to give them to to to sleep well.

00:11:01:03 – 00:11:26:19
Salah Ahmad
But they feel they never forget this bad history that they had. For example. And we had so many people with they have this problem. We done the best thing for them to feel and to how to have a hope again for the life to start a new life with a new city. But they never forget, of course, the old history.

00:11:26:19 – 00:11:52:19
Salah Ahmad
We in the psychotherapy, we do something. The people, they learn to live with that what happened in the past, they never forget it, but they learn to live with it, to accept the course. And this is the difficult what was very steep in psychotherapy for traumatized people.

00:11:52:19 – 00:12:07:14
Philippa White
Can you bring to life the message that you use? I’m fascinated by the healing garden. I think it’s such a beautiful, positive, empowering project. Can you can you talk to us about that? It does sound so awful.

00:12:07:14 – 00:12:36:24
Salah Ahmad
We had a small what you and a small example we have in the area where we established this healing garden three regeneration after each other. That was in the very bad situation, psychological, because there was no help for them until we began in this area. I mean, in fact, what did our point in mental health area? Nothing was there.

00:12:37:17 – 00:13:17:10
Salah Ahmad
And we saw many children. Which were they had so much violence in their own lives. They never speak. We spoke with adult people and that small example we had the child who was in that time, I think, yeah, it was ten years old and what we done, we had that duckling for him to care about this small band or any more, and he never spoke with me or with the psychotherapists were no one.

00:13:18:00 – 00:14:02:04
Salah Ahmad
After this meeting, this duckling was depressed. It’s between the therapist and himself. He spoke through this duckling, and so he can joke about this animal. He feels so good. After. After six months, he explained what they’d done with him at home. For example, there was domestic violence against him, there was sexual abuse against him. All this history we learned after six months to give him this this child with a small animal which he it gave him the power to speak again.

00:14:03:24 – 00:14:04:14
Philippa White
Wow.

00:14:04:16 – 00:14:05:00
Salah Ahmad
Yeah.

00:14:05:03 – 00:14:06:00
Philippa White
What a story.

00:14:06:00 – 00:14:35:09
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, it is something like this. This. Give us the hope that we are on the right way to have these children because they will be our future. Of course. Yeah. And of course, society needs its people and we don’t need a child with equal environments. He will be aggressive later to. But if we help him, you will integrate him again in this society for human being.

00:14:37:03 – 00:14:54:12
Philippa White
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. One of the questions I want to ask you, because I’m sort of jumping around a little bit just sort of to try and capture everything. But I did want to know, you know, what is something that really concerns you? What sort of keeps you up at night when you think about just.

00:14:54:21 – 00:14:55:01
Salah Ahmad
Yeah.

00:14:55:08 – 00:14:58:08
Philippa White
The challenge that you have in front of you, what do you worry.

00:14:58:16 – 00:15:08:22
Salah Ahmad
If you you know about ice and you hear many things about the violence what I to use it in Iraq and Syria and.

00:15:08:22 – 00:15:09:05
Philippa White
Yeah.

00:15:09:17 – 00:15:39:10
Salah Ahmad
They had more than 6000 child soldiers but we don’t know where they are now. They are in the families they used to be in the future. A danger again, danger group if we don’t help the children. And this made me to be very wary and sad. If we don’t find a way, how would we help these children to integrate them in this society again?

00:15:39:21 – 00:16:18:15
Salah Ahmad
Because there had been there wasn’t guilty. They was eight year, nine years, six years. And they were child soldiers by far from ISIS. And now they are in on families and the family. They cannot do anything for them. They will be psychological in a bad situation. And this society, I think, needs to help these people because I am worried about that, that in the future we will have many, many people with there are, they believe, on violence as a solution, you know.

00:16:20:05 – 00:16:25:05
Salah Ahmad
Yes. And this made me, I mean, sad, you know.

00:16:25:05 – 00:16:27:15
Philippa White
Absolutely. And what gives you hope?

00:16:27:24 – 00:16:56:19
Salah Ahmad
The hope is, as I told you, if I see this child that he is again in the society he believes on himself, or, for example, we see patient with they come, the head is down and they are very sad. You cannot see that they they they are happy. And at six months they come to you. They love and they speak with you.

00:16:57:00 – 00:17:09:00
Salah Ahmad
They they as another person, you know. And this it gives me the hope. Oh, we are in the right way. Let us to continue.

00:17:09:00 – 00:17:39:21
Philippa White
Yeah. Can you talk about the the healing garden? Just I’m fascinated by the process that you use of also art therapy. And I wonder if you can just give us if you can bring to life the beneficiaries. Obviously, you talked about the women and the children. I’m sure there’s also men in this in these groups. And and I know that the art therapy and the art and I just wonder if you can talk a little bit about the just the process that you use.

00:17:39:21 – 00:17:48:14
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, we had the now it is because Corona, it is a little bit difficult to work in big groups.

00:17:48:24 – 00:18:11:06
Philippa White
We have well actually I’m keen to actually understand actually let’s before then before we go to that question, why don’t you talk about the my my question previously. So yeah. Do you want to just talk about how you have been affected by COVID just because obviously around the world has been affected in so many different ways. And I’m very keen to know how your work at the G on foundation.

00:18:11:07 – 00:18:15:11
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. Maybe we have this one. Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:18:15:11 – 00:18:17:01
Philippa White
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

00:18:18:06 – 00:19:00:03
Salah Ahmad
You know, and the first time it was for us very difficult to start to close the centers because we know you cannot stop at psychotherapy in that process. You know, it will be very difficult for clients and the patient would they need someone to listen to them to to to feel better and to be accepted? Yeah. Because they have this stigma that they feel bad, you know, and because this we find the way to, to change the way face to face therapy, to remote therapy, you know.

00:19:01:12 – 00:19:38:07
Salah Ahmad
Okay, yeah, I did that and it was very positive for many patients. But it was, for example, because we have a group from people that are very poor, they have the money to get to have Internet to have been good, for example, mobile telephone. And, and this was the biggest problem for us that we buy for everyone and that Internet to be online with us towards and they begin a little bit complicated.

00:19:38:07 – 00:20:06:12
Salah Ahmad
And later now we saw that it was very, very helpful because we have many people with they are affected too. So inside oneself, you know and this is very bad for us if they kill one. So in in the time of COVID, you know, every every second one will be depressed about clothes, shops, clothes, everything in the world.

00:20:06:12 – 00:20:33:14
Salah Ahmad
And it is the same situation in Iraq to the people. They cannot do anything. And if they haven’t any people with took to speak about the trauma too. They will be yeah. At the end and then they will be finished. They cannot do anything because this young foundation had the program from the first day to be careful about this point.

00:20:33:14 – 00:20:45:18
Salah Ahmad
And we succeed or that we have many and that it’s people that are online with us and they get their therapy through through Internet, through remote sessions, you know.

00:20:47:16 – 00:21:01:05
Philippa White
And actually, what what is the situation like right now in Iraq from a COVID? Yeah, you are seeing lucid. Are things coming back to some kind of are you able to meet with people now or is it still only virtual?

00:21:01:05 – 00:21:45:23
Salah Ahmad
It is it is now very, very difficult. But we have mass and we use everything and we have some small machine to control. There people they are infected or know because before they come inside and if they’re infected, we help them to to find their way to get some medication and any help. But it is it is. We have had huge number to 50% to face to face for difficult cases and another 50%, it seems we are remote session, you know.

00:21:46:14 – 00:21:46:20
Salah Ahmad
Yeah.

00:21:47:10 – 00:21:47:20
Philippa White
Yes.

00:21:49:04 – 00:22:18:04
Salah Ahmad
But, you know, not easy. It is very difficult, you know, for the clients because they they have sometimes concentration problems and they cannot listen all the time via a computer or sometimes the only mobile telephone. It is very difficult for them. Sometimes you have cuts at five, four times in 30 minutes, you know.

00:22:19:02 – 00:22:20:00
Philippa White
Yes, yes. Yeah.

00:22:20:01 – 00:22:42:24
Salah Ahmad
And make it very difficult. But we see the needs is very huge and this make us to do it. We know it is difficult. We know it is not very, very good as we want, but we do it, you know, and we feel that the profit from it, I mean, and the patient, they accept that they like it.

00:22:43:06 – 00:22:45:16
Salah Ahmad
And this is what is very necessary, you know.

00:22:46:20 – 00:22:47:10
Philippa White
Of course.

00:22:47:10 – 00:22:47:18
Salah Ahmad
Yes.

00:22:48:02 – 00:23:11:11
Philippa White
So in this context of COVID, but also because obviously it’s quite a new thing. But the healing garden obviously has been going longer than that. And I’m sure that sort of the long term view hopefully. Yeah, to world around the world is hoping that, you know, we can start having these types of meetings in person again. What do you want to just bring to life?

00:23:11:11 – 00:23:33:04
Philippa White
This is sort of back to my question before we started talking about COVID, just some of the stories that have sort of stood out and just talking a little bit more about the healing garden and your process with regards to art therapy. And are you able to still do that virtually in the way that you’re working and just to let people to bring to life your just your methodology and how you do it?

00:23:33:04 – 00:24:04:20
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, we have been you know, we have one woman group. This is a group with they are taken by as as slaves. And, you know, we have many woman with they sell them more than ten times in this three years when they was by age just accept prisoners and this woman we have a woman clinic for them it is beside our healing garden.

00:24:06:11 – 00:24:44:01
Salah Ahmad
And you we knew with all these help or what you say treatment for this woman in the healing guides. And now if we say, okay because currently we must be a little bit careful, they they want all the time to go in the garden sometimes one or two persons with each other, they go and stay there more than one hour or 2 hours and come back the clinic, you know, and how a woman say it is my paradise.

00:24:45:19 – 00:25:18:17
Salah Ahmad
And we had some tests and what we got done with them to to give them a piece land in the healing garden and some seeds and some things. They like to use it to see how the plant grow and how the nature is. And this was very, very nice discussion about about this program and how they feel after after this.

00:25:18:24 – 00:25:53:23
Salah Ahmad
She saved, for example, I had them and the lady she was they taken by, I said she was 17 and she comes back. She was, I think, 20, 20 years. And she had in this time two children. And but she didn’t get her children back. I don’t know why. And she was very sad all the time after this after this piece land and after the treatment in the healing garden.

00:25:53:23 – 00:26:21:15
Salah Ahmad
And this lady was the power for her group, and she was at Saint Cyclops. Head up the group so strong she helped every woman in the group. She was the biggest seller for us, you know, and me, we did. Then after the group was finished, she say, I will come back to you. And she tried to come back again, only to help.

00:26:21:18 – 00:26:22:20
Salah Ahmad
Was well, then you know.

00:26:23:16 – 00:26:24:12
Philippa White
Oh, how.

00:26:24:12 – 00:26:41:19
Salah Ahmad
Wonderful it was like this. You will be very happy as a psychotherapist. You did. You get hope to continue more and more and to do more for this people because they are in urgent need. You know?

00:26:41:19 – 00:26:42:22
Philippa White
Yes, yes.

00:26:42:23 – 00:26:43:20
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. This was.

00:26:44:07 – 00:26:44:14
Philippa White
Perhaps.

00:26:44:23 – 00:26:46:17
Salah Ahmad
The.

00:26:46:17 – 00:26:54:06
Philippa White
And what’s the where does the art therapy come in in what we had she founded.

00:26:54:08 – 00:27:31:04
Salah Ahmad
We have for this groups different activities and one is our therapy they know now that art therapy it isn’t to only to make the best pictures or anything what they do they must do with like what how they like it. And this was and a very good thing we had so many what you say paint pictures. We make an Art Express exhibition.

00:27:32:16 – 00:27:33:02
Philippa White
Exhibition.

00:27:33:04 – 00:28:12:08
Salah Ahmad
The exhibition with the high school for art and slavery and the university and these pictures, they was in Austria and Europe and now they are, I think, in London, you know, from this nation. And it makes us too happy. And the people, if they hear that what they done, it is an international power to to some people, they they accept them and they own pictures or an artwork is accepted by another people to look on it.

00:28:12:17 – 00:28:17:20
Salah Ahmad
And it was very, very positive for the clients, you know.

00:28:19:08 – 00:28:27:11
Philippa White
Yes. And but also such a wonderful way. Just the story that you just gave about that woman. Yeah. She obviously feels so powered, right?

00:28:27:11 – 00:28:28:07
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:28:09 – 00:28:47:16
Philippa White
So much stronger. And to share that story of empowerment and hope and opportunity and her now, you know, impacting in a positive way other women through their healing journey and capturing that hope. I mean, I’ve seen the artwork from various different.

00:28:48:00 – 00:28:48:16
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:48:18 – 00:29:10:12
Philippa White
And people in the material and you look at it and you, you see the pain that they had, but you can see the hope and the, you know, the, the story that goes along with it’s such a beautiful way to raise awareness of your work, but also tell these stories and for them to tell their stories, which is obviously, you know, a powerful part of the process as well.

00:29:10:12 – 00:29:33:05
Philippa White
I thought it’s fantastic. And that actually, you know, that brings me to the you know, the accelerator project that we have with you. Yeah. Which is around this. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit around it a rather clean it. I thought you know how perhaps you can explain how you hope that we can help you to benefit and help your foundation will benefit too.

00:29:33:14 – 00:30:06:17
Salah Ahmad
I think this program, what you have, it is great for, you know, because I think this art which we make or for example, bags or anything which we can sell through GM foundation, it will be helpful. As I told you, we had in the beginning 5000 patient in a year, but now we have with the same money 8000 patients in a year.

00:30:06:17 – 00:30:44:13
Salah Ahmad
Yeah. And this makes the needs very huge. We have a group from people, they cannot take a taxi or to come to the centers and what we do they, they get the money for the taxi. Yeah. As and, and a couple of course maybe sometimes two or $3 or $5 or $10, you know, but good to get the treatment because if we don’t pay them this money, they cannot come.

00:30:44:13 – 00:31:09:09
Salah Ahmad
And this is the sadness that we have so many people, they are not only in need to to get a treatment, they are need to to get more help sometimes to see a woman. And it is very cold and she had a jacket to wear it. And this this make of of course, to find a way how we can help these people.

00:31:09:20 – 00:31:38:23
Salah Ahmad
And I think this program, if we find friends like you to to sell something or to donate for Young Foundation, will be a net positive point, because this we will get help for more patients and more people when they are in need to get some treatment, they will get it. You know, and this is the positive side, which I see in this project, in this case.

00:31:39:03 – 00:31:39:14
Salah Ahmad
Good.

00:31:40:09 – 00:32:19:22
Philippa White
Well, yeah. And we’re really looking forward to it, too. I can’t wait for us to be able to pull together a group of people, which we and we’re going to be launching this with you mid October. Yeah. So we’re just figuring out final dates. But the, the plan is for that to kick off then and yeah, we’ll spend six weeks working well a month actually working with you the program for them in six weeks, but with you a month and helping you raise awareness of your work and hopefully finding a way for you to be able to generate income through, you know, the different ideas that together you will come together to to see what

00:32:19:22 – 00:32:27:05
Philippa White
works best for you and yeah, and we’ll see how, we’ll see how we can help. So yeah, I’m really looking forward to being able to do that.

00:32:27:12 – 00:32:28:04
Salah Ahmad
It’s making.

00:32:28:12 – 00:32:28:23
Philippa White
Wonder if.

00:32:29:05 – 00:32:31:22
Salah Ahmad
Our patient to, you know.

00:32:31:22 – 00:32:54:15
Philippa White
Yeah. And us and the people involved I mean the people who are already signed up. Yeah. You know, they just can’t wait to be able to use what they know. Yeah. To be able to significantly impact an organization and a group of people. I mean the great thing is coming out of this, you really will have something tangible that will help you and your beneficiaries.

00:32:54:15 – 00:33:18:18
Philippa White
And that’s what I get really excited about with time, because something tangible will come out of this and you will find a way to be able to to generate income. So I’m excited for that. So okay. So just to wrap things up, what are you perhaps you just want to tell people, you know, what you’re working on at the moment or if there’s anything that I haven’t asked you that perhaps you want to share with our listeners.

00:33:19:07 – 00:33:50:21
Salah Ahmad
Yeah, I think at first I, I feel very well now I tell this what we spoke about it, it was very nice. But what I say it is maybe I’ll repeat some words because we spoke now about it. It is that young foundation because the needs grow and grow and we need more trans and more and out of it.

00:33:50:22 – 00:34:40:19
Salah Ahmad
We have 12 centers only in Kurdistan and Iraq. We have a center in Syria. Yeah, yeah. And this organization needs help. And if we get a friendship with you and another another people with, they can donate or help us in that way. It will be very, very helpful for us. And now we are in discussion only for your information to establish an academy for psychotherapy, because we see that Middle East area needs some places like this to have more psychotherapies to help people better.

00:34:40:19 – 00:34:51:14
Salah Ahmad
And because the needs, they are very big and we hope that we will succeed with each other to get more help from you and your organization.

00:34:52:13 – 00:35:25:17
Philippa White
Great. Well, definitely you can count on us. So and also what I will do, because this is obviously going out to reach other people in the description, in the podcast, of course, we will put to your organization which of course will have contact information. So to any of you out there that are listening, if this resonates, please, you know, if you’re interested to get involved through, you know, a project with see if there’s still time for this particular tie accelerator, of course, get in touch with Ty.

00:35:25:23 – 00:35:54:03
Philippa White
But of course, if you want to donate or if you have any partner ideas for the Academy, of course, reach out directly to the GYAN Foundation and to you. So absolutely the contact details will be there. And anyone, please, if you are interested, please do get in touch. Absolutely. Well, listen, Salah, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your stories and for helping us understand about the work that you’re doing.

00:35:54:03 – 00:36:01:20
Salah Ahmad
I really I hope I hope that my English wasn’t so bad. I hope that everyone understands me. What I mean.

00:36:02:18 – 00:36:07:10
Philippa White
Yes, your English was absolutely fine. I understood because I understood everyone else would have understood it.

00:36:07:13 – 00:36:10:10
Salah Ahmad
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

00:36:10:20 – 00:36:11:23
Philippa White
Enjoy the rest of your day.

00:36:12:05 – 00:36:13:20
Salah Ahmad
Well, my pleasure. Thank you.

00:36:14:13 – 00:36:16:13
Philippa White
We look forward to working with you soon. Take care.

00:36:17:01 – 00:36:18:23
Salah Ahmad
Okay. Thank you very much. Okay, bye.

00:36:19:17 – 00:36:52:03
Philippa White
Bye. Salah.

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